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officer retention
- Thread starter Fist Mollusk
- Start date
I will do 17/20 in the cockpit (1 year stash before flight school, two years on the boat for a dis-associated which I don't regret a bit). By the time I'm done I will have seen 7 T/M/S with a >13,000 spread between BuNo's.
My last skipper made CAPT with only two years out of the cockpit (in a cubicle at Pax) and is still flying now, but he is by far the exception, not the rule.
Make no mistake; your time in the cockpit is governed by the "choose your rate, choose your fate" rule. Whether or not you drink that sweet, sweet kool-aid in hopes of that promotion/CO tour/whatever or whether you decide to pick your own road.
Husband's at about 9 years (just started his 3rd set of post FRS orders) and with the exception of a few months between graduation and API, he's been in the cockpit. Current orders keep him there through about 11 years, and he should get department head orders after that (I think those are 24 mo orders), so that would put him at roughly 13 or 14 years, all in flying billets. After that, it's a little up in the air, but some flying is still a possibility.
Not all of his peers have been quite so lucky, as many of them are now on boats while he is flying in a Super JO billet, but even so, they will reach about 14 years with only 2 in non-flying billets.
MasterBates
Well-Known Member
I am 7 years post OCS, and will be in the cockpit thru 11 at a minimum, and unless the detailer is lying, I will probably be in the cockpit for 14-15 years straight.
*note. My detailer told me, with a straight face "Detailers don't lie, the truth changes"
*note. My detailer told me, with a straight face "Detailers don't lie, the truth changes"
Fist Mollusk
New Member
Great help
guys,
thanks for your help...kind of what I expected. A mix of deployment/lifestyle/expectation hardships and changing attitudes about them. To sum it up, bullshit tolerance changes for many!
I think the hardest fall is for those (like me) who might have come in with big expectations, and have been occasionally underwhelmed by the buffoonery that occurs. I had always hoped that senior officers were people that I wanted to be like...and that is just not the case too often (I have had some GREAT leaders...but almost as many bad ones).
I do think the comparison of this job, and many civilian jobs is truly not fair, because nobody deploys for wal-mart, they don't take night traps, pull an IA, fly around in cranky, old deathmachines, get shot at, have near mid airs, eject, sweat natops, land broken, bleeding, burning planes.... They do have bad leadership...but bad leadership can kill in aviation, not in a cubicle. I do like the Navy...just not all of it.
yut
guys,
thanks for your help...kind of what I expected. A mix of deployment/lifestyle/expectation hardships and changing attitudes about them. To sum it up, bullshit tolerance changes for many!
I think the hardest fall is for those (like me) who might have come in with big expectations, and have been occasionally underwhelmed by the buffoonery that occurs. I had always hoped that senior officers were people that I wanted to be like...and that is just not the case too often (I have had some GREAT leaders...but almost as many bad ones).
I do think the comparison of this job, and many civilian jobs is truly not fair, because nobody deploys for wal-mart, they don't take night traps, pull an IA, fly around in cranky, old deathmachines, get shot at, have near mid airs, eject, sweat natops, land broken, bleeding, burning planes.... They do have bad leadership...but bad leadership can kill in aviation, not in a cubicle. I do like the Navy...just not all of it.
yut
Glad to see you took the red pill.
I have to second the comment that a lot of the senior officers I like and respect claim that they never were lifers out of the gate, they just rolled with it. Then again, a lot of the guys I like fly for the arlines now too.
Good luck, either way you'll be better for it.
I have to second the comment that a lot of the senior officers I like and respect claim that they never were lifers out of the gate, they just rolled with it. Then again, a lot of the guys I like fly for the arlines now too.
Good luck, either way you'll be better for it.
I just went over 10 years recently and chose to stay in, put on O-4 last month. I've been in the cockpit since joining and will be in the cockpit for at least 4 more years. No shore tour yet, but no disassociated either. 2400 hours so far.
Shouldn't you change your picture then?
P.S. Welcome to the dark side........:icon_smil
fudog50
Registered User
You gotta be kiddin me?
For as many reason to leave the Navy, there are too many more to stay!
Including the most reason, if I leave, I might actually have to work for a living???
This is way too much fun, I wouldn't desire to do anything different.
When I was simply an Avionics technician, it was me against, or with the jet. I suppose it is somewhat the same for flyers? Everyday the only thing I cared about was how the jet was either going to cooperate or I would fight it. After a while, some sooner or later, man against the machine leaves very few opportunities for satisfaction. But those few situations where I kicked the jets ass were very rewarding.
But mostly it's the people. the senior folks are definitetly the most professional group of individuals you will ever work with, (granted a lot are anal, including myself at times, but that comes with every field and the sooner you accept that and deal with it, the more fun you have).
But most of the time you work with senior Officers that will trust you to do your job, those are the greatest leaders of all. And the job satisfaction that comes with that, no amount of money can compensate for that.
The junior folks are incredible and are what keeps me in. I certainly learned along the way that they are the lifeblood and leading them and training them is what it's all about.
Once you get to a certain level of leadership and responsibility you finally figure it out that if you aren't doing it, who will???
I kinda feel sorry for you flyer guys that really never get a chance to lead sailors. And those opportunities are diminishing. The Div "O" jobs you guys hold for the short periods of time are your only real chances to be a front line leader, unless you move on to Dept Head (ops or maint).
Involvement is the key there, and the most successful dept heads I have run across are fully engaged. But at the same time they let the real professionals do thier jobs. Setting policy and goals and then watching the LDO/CWO's and senior enlisted guys carry it out is totally rewarding.
Long story short, that is what has kept me in, is working with professionals and the humble opportunities to lead. Challenging but very rewarding.
I dread the day when I finally have to call it quits and have to stop goofing off and actually have to work for a living? I can't even fathom having to punch a time clock!
Thanks for the time reading this diatribe....
Have Another Great Navy Day!!! (they all are)
For as many reason to leave the Navy, there are too many more to stay!
Including the most reason, if I leave, I might actually have to work for a living???
This is way too much fun, I wouldn't desire to do anything different.
When I was simply an Avionics technician, it was me against, or with the jet. I suppose it is somewhat the same for flyers? Everyday the only thing I cared about was how the jet was either going to cooperate or I would fight it. After a while, some sooner or later, man against the machine leaves very few opportunities for satisfaction. But those few situations where I kicked the jets ass were very rewarding.
But mostly it's the people. the senior folks are definitetly the most professional group of individuals you will ever work with, (granted a lot are anal, including myself at times, but that comes with every field and the sooner you accept that and deal with it, the more fun you have).
But most of the time you work with senior Officers that will trust you to do your job, those are the greatest leaders of all. And the job satisfaction that comes with that, no amount of money can compensate for that.
The junior folks are incredible and are what keeps me in. I certainly learned along the way that they are the lifeblood and leading them and training them is what it's all about.
Once you get to a certain level of leadership and responsibility you finally figure it out that if you aren't doing it, who will???
I kinda feel sorry for you flyer guys that really never get a chance to lead sailors. And those opportunities are diminishing. The Div "O" jobs you guys hold for the short periods of time are your only real chances to be a front line leader, unless you move on to Dept Head (ops or maint).
Involvement is the key there, and the most successful dept heads I have run across are fully engaged. But at the same time they let the real professionals do thier jobs. Setting policy and goals and then watching the LDO/CWO's and senior enlisted guys carry it out is totally rewarding.
Long story short, that is what has kept me in, is working with professionals and the humble opportunities to lead. Challenging but very rewarding.
I dread the day when I finally have to call it quits and have to stop goofing off and actually have to work for a living? I can't even fathom having to punch a time clock!
Thanks for the time reading this diatribe....
Have Another Great Navy Day!!! (they all are)
For those who get the opportunity and privilege to lead Aircrew, there's plenty of front line opportunity.
If you want to find a large group of guys looking to get out, take a look at the training command (CNATRA). I took orders to Kingsville from USMC Prowlers in 2005. I enjoyed being in the fleet, but after 4 deployments in my first tour, I wanted a flying tour in the states. I was completely on the fence about staying in or not. As I took the orders, a LtCol told me and about 15 other tacair guys to "do whatever it takes to stop those orders (to CNATRA)" attesting to how they would end our careers. I've always been a believer that if you do your job well, the opportunities for advancement would follow.
Now, here's what I'm offered: take DIFDEN (nonflying) deploying orders in order to get follow on orders back to a squadron. My buddy did this, took an IA and was slapped with another IA when he showed up to the squadrons--and he's not the only one. All this to get to a department head tour in a deploying squadron to be competitive for O5. Contrast that with a civilian job or the airlines. So I still consider myself on the fence, only the Marine Corps is piling barbed wire and cacti on it's side and telling me to come on back to the fleet.
So to answer your question, most in Kingsville at least tell me they are getting out because of OPTEMPO and quality of life. I never hear money as reason to get out as most feel we are adequately compensated. Hope this helps, and feel free to PM me if you'd like.
Now, here's what I'm offered: take DIFDEN (nonflying) deploying orders in order to get follow on orders back to a squadron. My buddy did this, took an IA and was slapped with another IA when he showed up to the squadrons--and he's not the only one. All this to get to a department head tour in a deploying squadron to be competitive for O5. Contrast that with a civilian job or the airlines. So I still consider myself on the fence, only the Marine Corps is piling barbed wire and cacti on it's side and telling me to come on back to the fleet.
So to answer your question, most in Kingsville at least tell me they are getting out because of OPTEMPO and quality of life. I never hear money as reason to get out as most feel we are adequately compensated. Hope this helps, and feel free to PM me if you'd like.
I don't think there is any unwillingness or feasability issues of getting people to a boat underway. We used to fly plane loads of people to the boat, all the time (which a large majority were then helo'ed off to the small boys). Obviously we flew more people to the boat during the first few days of the deployment having to get all of the squadron guys on that stayed back. However, no matter how long the boat was out, there was always a consistent flow of passenger coming off and going onto the boat. These people were FNG's out of boot camp going to the boat to report to their first command, people flying off the boat PCS'ing, people going on emergency leave, squadron maintenance guys going to resue a bird on the beach, MEDEVACS, and DV's. These are all situations where people HAVE to get on/off the ship when the boat is underway, there is no getting around it. They do try to walk these people on/off during port visits as much as possible, but it is rarely convenient to do so.
I would have been gone long since had I thought I needed to stay in my old community (or at least stay in what it turned into) for my entire career. As you are pondering the stay/go decision don't forget that a little disloyalty to your community can have a positive affect on your job satisfaction. Don't buy into B.S. from senior officers in your community that you "owe" it them or anybody else to stay in the same platform or designator for you entire career.
