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NSS Facts

gotta_fly

Well-Known Member
pilot
Flying was not easy, but it was often easier than the calibration required to play well with different instructors. Being well spoken is a great asset, as well as direct and non-confrontational.
Get used to it. If you're going to a platform with more than just you strapped in then this will be a daily fact of life. Every crew is different and learning to adapt quickly to different personalities will save you lots of heartache. If anything this becomes more important once you get to planes without orange, even if you're not being graded on a day-to-day basis.

Sent from my ADR6400L using Tapatalk 2
 

revan1013

Death by Snoo Snoo
pilot
How about we just fly and stop worrying about grades? Yeah in Primary it's hard not to if you're dead-set going somewhere... but that stress does you no good. Just study hard, fly your X, and don't be a prick, and the grades will be what they may. You'll end up liking what you do either way, so why beat yourself up over things you can't control?
 

wlawr005

Well-Known Member
pilot
Contributor
If it matters, one of the astronauts at VT3 has a PhD in Molecular Biology from Standford and she told me she's not pulling 5's either.

Party on.
 

insanebikerboy

Internet killed the television star
pilot
None
Contributor
How about we just fly and stop worrying about grades? Yeah in Primary it's hard not to if you're dead-set going somewhere... but that stress does you no good. Just study hard, fly your X, and don't be a prick, and the grades will be what they may. You'll end up liking what you do either way, so why beat yourself up over things you can't control?
While I would tend to agree, aviation is dominated by agrressive type-A personalities that have to know so it's not surprising.
 

Swanee

Self aware since 2014
pilot
None
Contributor
If it matters, one of the astronauts at VT3 has a PhD in Molecular Biology from Standford and she told me she's not pulling 5's either.

Party on.

...Maybe she's in VT-3 and not with Virgin Galactic because she couldn't get into Cornwell? ;)
 

craftingraptor

Dreaming about the P-8A
pilot
Without getting too in depth in the responses, there seems to be a huge assumption made that I was referring to 5's. I was actually referring in large part to graded items that mif says are "3" where a "4" appeared to be reasonable evalutation based on the subjective/objective standards in the mpts guide. And, let me make it clear. I do not second guess individual decisions made by instructors. It is theirs's and theirs is the final authority. However, I will do the best I can to understand how that decision was made so I know how to improve.

Hopefully this won't start a fire, but I've seen two types of interpretations of cts (of a "4" in particular). They are best summed up with the words in a quote. 1) "That met standards." And, 2) "That met standards, but it wasn't what I would call a 4, so you get a 3." So, both are right, but there's a difference.

Also, I understand that getting along is...perhaps...more important than the flying. No argument there.
 

revan1013

Death by Snoo Snoo
pilot
The AA/A/BA standard makes more sense to me, but I'm just an RP. I'm sure the guys that went through that whole transition to MPTS have a lot more to say about it.

I did bet a primary instructor that I could get a 5 on a spin. I was so sure I could do it. He let me give it a shot. I announced I would go left, pulled up, got into the stall... and spun the wrong way. :D
 

Gatordev

Well-Known Member
pilot
Site Admin
Contributor
Without getting too in depth in the responses, there seems to be a huge assumption made that I was referring to 5's. I was actually referring in large part to graded items that mif says are "3" where a "4" appeared to be reasonable evalutation based on the subjective/objective standards in the mpts guide. And, let me make it clear. I do not second guess individual decisions made by instructors. It is theirs's and theirs is the final authority. However, I will do the best I can to understand how that decision was made so I know how to improve.

Hopefully this won't start a fire, but I've seen two types of interpretations of cts (of a "4" in particular). They are best summed up with the words in a quote. 1) "That met standards." And, 2) "That met standards, but it wasn't what I would call a 4, so you get a 3." So, both are right, but there's a difference.

Also, I understand that getting along is...perhaps...more important than the flying. No argument there.
I'm really not following your post. I don't think you're understanding the definition of CTS, at least as how you describe it. CTS=4. Period. It doesn't matter what MIF is. If you met the standard, you get a 4. If a write-up says you met the standard ("Met CTS") and you get a 3, that's a Stan issue and needs to brought up (tactfully).

Your post is kind of a stream of consciousness, so I'm not sure if you don't understand the system or I just don't understand what you're saying.

The AA/A/BA standard makes more sense to me, but I'm just an RP. I'm sure the guys that went through that whole transition to MPTS have a lot more to say about it.
Technically speaking, the AA/A/BA can work as long as the grading criteria is either defined or is so vague that it leaves everything up to the IP. I can't speak for what your grading instruction says, but I can tell you that not all grading instructions make sense the way they're worded. In practice, it still works, but if someone wanted to appeal some grades officially, they'd have a case.

I did bet a primary instructor that I could get a 5 on a spin. I was so sure I could do it. He let me give it a shot. I announced I would go left, pulled up, got into the stall... and spun the wrong way. :D
As long as your last clearing turn was the same way, you're still in there!
 

Gatordev

Well-Known Member
pilot
Site Admin
Contributor
Well, sure, when you're one, dedicated training area is as big as the training area that half of the TW-5 aircraft share, you can do anything!

Who needs clearing turns?
TRAWING 4 Stan strikes again. (joking...kind of).
 

wlawr005

Well-Known Member
pilot
Contributor
Hopefully this won't start a fire, but I've seen two types of interpretations of cts (of a "4" in particular). They are best summed up with the words in a quote. 1) "That met standards." And, 2) "That met standards, but it wasn't what I would call a 4, so you get a 3." So, both are right, but there's a difference.
CTS is pretty cut and dry. If it says BAW = +/- 100 feet, +/- 10 degrees, +/- 10 knots, either you did it or you didn't. I've been graded pretty much to those standards throughout Primary, except for those few OP-T DH's who still use the BA/A/AA method subconsciously. My last sim guy gave me three 5s and 2 3s, and I pretty much deserved them all.

You could be overthinking this...
 

SynixMan

Space Cadet
pilot
Contributor
I bet the guys who Eugene Ely trained 99 years ago bitched about his grading standards over beers too... :rolleyes:
 

navjack

K-Vegas
Thanks for the help, salty guys. It's pretty clear that there probably are some mushy factors that occasionally push the numbers one way or the other but that the cts standards center that variation well enough. Still gonna shoot for the "get it done as well as you possibly can and enjoy being a naval aviator."

but since we're at it....[roll eyes here]
A few guys and I have also noticed a different numbers trend that I don't think has been mentioned yet. We're seeing that an item that gets performed at the beginning of a block and then not in the last few events (say, ICAs in BI sims) tends to warrant a five a lot easier than a maneuver that gets repeated down the line. Surely the reason it doesn't get repeated is because they expect you to have it under control sooner, but all the same it looks like that tricky 4/5 barrier is a lot easier to hop over on those. My best [SNA] guess for an explanation would be that maybe hitting a 5 on an early performance of a repeated maneuver puts the stud in a position to either be perfect or have to answer why he is regressing? Yes, if the stud is that good, he's that good and grades will show it, but it really looks like the grader is more inclined to say 5 if subsequent graders aren't obligated to agree or disagree. I know it's a bit of a stretch to think that the grader thinks that hard about the specific stud's next four grades on one item though, so I thought I'd throw it out there.
 

Gatordev

Well-Known Member
pilot
Site Admin
Contributor
but since we're at it....[roll eyes here]
A few guys and I have also noticed a different numbers trend that I don't think has been mentioned yet. We're seeing that an item that gets performed at the beginning of a block and then not in the last few events (say, ICAs in BI sims) tends to warrant a five a lot easier than a maneuver that gets repeated down the line. Surely the reason it doesn't get repeated is because they expect you to have it under control sooner, but all the same it looks like that tricky 4/5 barrier is a lot easier to hop over on those. My best [SNA] guess for an explanation would be that maybe hitting a 5 on an early performance of a repeated maneuver puts the stud in a position to either be perfect or have to answer why he is regressing? Yes, if the stud is that good, he's that good and grades will show it, but it really looks like the grader is more inclined to say 5 if subsequent graders aren't obligated to agree or disagree. I know it's a bit of a stretch to think that the grader thinks that hard about the specific stud's next four grades on one item though, so I thought I'd throw it out there.
Believe it or not, the IP wants a) for you to exceed and b) to minimize paperwork. If you regress below MIF by end of block, you've just made more paperwork.

If an IP sees you've smoked a maneuver and it's a maneuver that either isn't as important as others he can spend time on with you or it's a maneuver that really isn't a big deal in the grand scheme of things, he's probably going to skip it. I can't remember what ICA is (is that the 30/90/180 maneuver? I hated that maneuver. It took forever and was hard to keep yourself in the MOA), but some maneuvers are, well, just BS maneuvers. So why do them again when you're not going to ever do them again. Some are maneuvers that you're going to have to keep doing (like ATS, landing pattern, landings, etc) on check rides, so it's time better spent.
 
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