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NSS Facts

draad

Member
This boils down to a misunderstanding of both CTS and MIF. Not a surprise when the system is relatively new. Even less of a surprise when you have a bunch of guys who "always did it this way."

MIF has nothing to do with CTS. CTS is very easy to identify. A 3 is pretty much as easy to identify. If MIF is a 3 and the stud meets CTS, it's a 4 (or a 5). Trying to make a pretty pattern on the grade sheet or playing games with numbers just screws with the way the system was designed (regardless of whether we agree with the system or not).

I've grown to appreciate CTS and even MIF, especially in a BA/A/AA system whose instruction is written poorly.

Agree completely. The instructors in Primary seemed to grade much more based on CTS while the instructors here seem to base the gradesheet more on what MIF is. It's almost as if they're still in the mindset of the old system. They start with every x in the MIF column and then if you had an above average flight they'd bump a few of those up while if you had a below average flight they'd bump a few of those down. MPTS is pretty knew here so I expect it to come around it's just going to take time.
 

Gatordev

Well-Known Member
pilot
Site Admin
Contributor
Agree completely. The instructors in Primary seemed to grade much more based on CTS while the instructors here seem to base the gradesheet more on what MIF is. It's almost as if they're still in the mindset of the old system.

That's it exactly. MPTS has been around for 12+ years in Primary, so it's a "culture" now. Same thing happened in HTs. I'm sure there's guys here who can say whether it still happens in the HTs or not.
 

squorch2

he will die without safety brief
pilot
It happens with older instructors that did a fleet tour and are now back as OP-T. Instructors that did a TRACOM tour and are back are fine, as are folks that are first tour instructors.
 

FlyBoyd

Out to Pasture
pilot
Words about Sim grading

Just because a guy hits lights out in the batting cage doesn't make him a great hitter. He has to hit well in the actual game(s) to get called up.

I personally don't have a problem with an artificial ceiling in sim grading. Too many times (past Primary stuff), I have seen guys smoke the sim but couldn't keep the plane upright. They squeaked by in the plane and had a decent NSS from their smoking sim grades....and then they were/are bottom feeders in Advanced. I now fly with some of those guys.
 

jtmedli

Well-Known Member
pilot
That's it exactly. MPTS has been around for 12+ years in Primary, so it's a "culture" now. Same thing happened in HTs. I'm sure there's guys here who can say whether it still happens in the HTs or not.

I can't necessarily confirm or deny. But it does seem like a lot of gradesheets in the HTs are all 4's and then maybe a below or above 'here and there' depending on if you sucked or blew their mind on that particular maneuver.
 

draad

Member
Just because a guy hits lights out in the batting cage doesn't make him a great hitter. He has to hit well in the actual game(s) to get called up.

I personally don't have a problem with an artificial ceiling in sim grading. Too many times (past Primary stuff), I have seen guys smoke the sim but couldn't keep the plane upright. They squeaked by in the plane and had a decent NSS from their smoking sim grades....and then they were/are bottom feeders in Advanced. I now fly with some of those guys.

True. And thats the same view of a lot of the instructors in the sims here too. In fact, they basically let the students collaborate on all the tests to make sure everyone gets 100%s for that same reason as well.
 

squorch2

he will die without safety brief
pilot
That sucks for pretty much everyone. Sims aren't just a check in the block, they provide useful feedback and trends for both student and instructor alike. Assuming everyone gets a representative sample of sim instructors, sim grades should be distributed normally, just like flight grades. To artificially limit grades is to hamper the ability of sim instructors to evaluate and of students to perform.
 

bbf7b2

Active Member
pilot
I had a primary instructor tell me that he would give a 5 if a student could do something as well as he could (or in some rare cases, better). It varies a little from IP to IP.

This is one I heard often as well. Unless things have changed dramatically in the last year 5s are certainly attainable in both the VTs and HTs and even attainable in quantity, but trying to get 5s is a hard thing to do effectively. Of the people I know who had a lot of 5s there didn't seem to be any magic ingredient, just trying to do everything perfectly and hoping to get as close as you can. The other thing I saw was that 5s beget more 5s, when an IP would look through the jacket of a "5 guy" it would seem to set that stud at a certain level of expectation that seemed to produce more 5s.
 

bbf7b2

Active Member
pilot
Yeah most of the time I'm sure, but I definitely think I had some flights that were not my best work where I got a certain benefit of the doubt. Maybe it was just good briefs
 

craftingraptor

Dreaming about the P-8A
pilot
Grading in flight school is like grading an essay, it's subjective, objective and you get extra points for style.

There's nothing wrong with it, as long as it's mostly standardized (which is usually true). Unfortunately, you sometimes come upon instructors that have different views than what is "standard." Or the long day of instructing results in a human being that wants more to go home than put in the extra required comments for a grade above mif (reporting below mif doesn't seem to be a problem).

(If and) when I become an instructor I wonder if I'll be at all concerned with the grading inadequacies that I ran into as a student (probably not?).

The hardest thing I ran into as a student was figuring out how to play well with all the different personalities. Flying was not easy, but it was often easier than the calibration required to play well with different instructors. Being well spoken is a great asset, as well as direct and non-confrontational.

Good luck to the rest of you students out there.
 

squorch2

he will die without safety brief
pilot
Dude, take the chip off your shoulder. You know what it takes to write up a 5 for flight planning? "Great job on flight planning today." Boom, 5'd. For a 4 when MIF is a 3? "Within CTS."

I can say that I definitely remember my feelings regarding grading as a student, when MPTS was still new and IPs tried to shoehorn the old above/below mentality into it. Rest assured that the vast majority of your IPs know what CTS is, know how to apply it, and actually want to instruct and help you along. If you run across folks that aren't doing that, use stage critiques and end of course critiques to highlight the problem.
 

zippy

Freedom!
pilot
Contributor
Grading in flight school is like grading an essay, it's subjective, objective and you get extra points for style.

There's nothing wrong with it, as long as it's mostly standardized (which is usually true). Unfortunately, you sometimes come upon instructors that have different views than what is "standard." Or the long day of instructing results in a human being that wants more to go home than put in the extra required comments for a grade above mif (reporting below mif doesn't seem to be a problem).

(If and) when I become an instructor I wonder if I'll be at all concerned with the grading inadequacies that I ran into as a student (probably not?).

The hardest thing I ran into as a student was figuring out how to play well with all the different personalities. Flying was not easy, but it was often easier than the calibration required to play well with different instructors. Being well spoken is a great asset, as well as direct and non-confrontational.

Good luck to the rest of you students out there.

Once you become an instructor you'll see student performance and grading in the grand scheme of things. Just because one student does awesome compared to their normal performance level doesn't mean they are 5 worthy when compared to CTS, or their peers. Above MIF doesn't take additional comments. Exceeding CTS does. Not trying to be a dick but if you didn't get any 5s on a certain flight, you probably didn't deserve any.
 
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