Navy helo community....what's the latest news?

[Stearmann4]

Believe me, it's been said many times by us knuckle-draggers that it would be ideal if NAVAIR would allow a contingent of Navy 60's to assimilate into SOCOM and partake of the funding/training. It would greatly relieve the demand on our airframes and crews. The AF is next to useless in that regard. The would prefer to make rotary wing go away entirely.

Being a Jedi-knight is not a pre-requisite to being a spec ops pilot. However, it takes a lot of resourcing, practice, and leadership who's willing to underwite the inherent risks of the mission. I don't forsee Navy leadership doing any of those. With few exceptions, pilots are pilots, and will adapt to the mission. We're alreayd getting a small influx of USMC guys (even a Navy LT) coming over and doing well. I just see a bunch of Navy brass that detail "special ops" on powerpoint briefs, but are adverse to devote any true resources at letting you guys get good at it beyond squadron-level training. Dropping customers downtown on the "X" on a hot LZ requires much more training than the occasional NSW exercise at Fallon, or duck drops in Glorietta Bay. But, it briefs well.

Missions are changing, and everyone who has a helicopter may be required to conduct real assault missions feet dry. My opnion, Navy helos should be trained and capable to go wherever the fast movers operate.

Of course my opinion as an Army guy now, is worth about what you paid for it.

 

[hscs]

^^ couldn't have said it better myself.

 

[bert]

The Navy's theory is that there is no reason for them to fund this mission if somebody else will pay for it. The budget isn't going to grow, and they sure aren't going to cut any money from the pointy-nose world, so don't expect any sudden shifts in CNAF's priorities.

 

[1rotorhead]

Well said.

 

[1rotorhead]

The navy has been able to keep their assets to themselves because they were not made to go feet dry (except for the few HH's). Once the Sierra's have their survivability package it will be hard to say no to customers who need support from an aircraft that is well suited. Regardless who pays for it, if there are helos who can do the mission they will be asked for. There is no way we'll be given all this great gear just to do PG. If that happens, it's borderline criminal.

 

[Brett327]

There is no way we'll be given all this great gear just to do PG.

You should know better.

Brett

 

[hscs]

I just see a bunch of Navy brass that detail "special ops" on powerpoint briefs, but are adverse to devote any true resources at letting you guys get good at it beyond squadron-level training. Dropping customers downtown on the "X" on a hot LZ requires much more training than the occasional NSW exercise at Fallon, or duck drops in Glorietta Bay. But, it briefs well.

Hey man, don't hate -- we are improving -- we are fleeting up to dropping the ducks in South San Diego Bay where the ripples are a little bit bigger....

 

[S.O.B.]

Latest news for 53s is glass cockpit.

 

[1rotorhead]

Don't hate, participate!

 

[Cyclic]

Yeah, but that is 5 years from now for -84. Oh, and by the way, all the conops in the world won't take away an RFF. OPCON always trumps ADCON.

Yes, the ROC/POE will align, but who is going to go when the call comes -- another HSC squadron without the depth of experience as -84?

Hey...don't get me wrong, I agree 100% and I'm all for it, the reasoning is that we've been augmenting SOCOM for quite some time now and we have our own manning problems so when it came time for a new CONOPS it reflected on HCS-5 going away and a solid plan to transition 4 to 84 and have all HSC have the same capabilities. In other words HSC Reserve's mission will be to surge active EXP units.

And yes...all Squadrons EXP and CVW have an NSW det requirement. Training is an issue, no doubt. Plan is that depending on when folks get to a squadron and deployment schedule selected crews will have to track on a certain mission area.

What will happen on focused NSW is the same as with AMCM, HM does AMCM full time above other things, still they have a full training sched to be mission proficient. Big Navy is expecting HSC to have the same level with 1/4 of training.

Yep...life will be extremely busy on a EXP squadron.

 

[bert]

For new helo guys, if you do go HSC be sure to get yourself on the 'right' track. One of the consequences of having your pilots separated into focusing on different missions is that the haves and have-nots get sorted out even earlier than usual (and HC was always bad about identifying their future COs halfway through their first tour).

 

[hscs]

Have heard talk of squadrons psuedo-specializing -- e.g. HSC-26 focussing on mines, -22 focussing on overland, etc.

My issue with expeditionary side of the house taking over (on paper) for -84 is the lack of experience. Most "brand new" copilots show up to 84 with anywhere from 1500-3000 hours. It is easier to teach tactics to someone with a solid background. In our current setup -- a brand new FRP would require around a years worth of intense training before he is ready for the desert. Look at how long it took the Air Ambulance to get spooled up for simply working Udari, and apply that to now working Fallujah, Taji, etc. Secondly, a second "cruise" JO would need a good amount of training before he is ready to be a HAC in the desert. That also leaves the question of where your flight leads will come from -- the OICs in HSC have been out of the cockpit for around 2 years getting the holy grail of HC (the OOD letter) and would need as much time as the JOs to get spooled up. The only other answer would be to import super-JOs -- again forcing the community to give up its holy grail.

If the conop is truly serious about this NSW business -- the FRS also needs to move to a syllabus more suited for a tactical environment. If you look at our jet brethern -- they spend quite a lot of time bombing and doing ACM. Their FRS isn't a simple get your NATOPS X, go to the boat, and get out of here. In fact, the HS and HSL FRSs used to have a significant tactical focus -- their ASW program made it so that you wouldn't have your head totally up your a** if the day after you left the FRS you were up chasing subs in the G-I-UK gap. We need to adjust the HSC FRS syllabus to the point where a guy leaving the FRS has the current equivalent of a level 2 qual, if this conop is to work.

 

[Cyclic]

Initially there will be "specialization" because the initial production of OAMCM mission support equipment and armed helo kits is slow. HSC-2 will ramp up OAMCM ans HSC-3 will do the same with AH, then cross train.

The HSC(EXP) FRS curriculum qualifies to L-100 on all Primary Mission Areas including NSW and OAMCM, it'll be about 9 months.

 

[MasterBates]

Sounds like the HSL rag.. L100 in all areas..

 

[hscs]

Yes, I know that they take them to L100 -- that is the definition of L100 across all platforms. The current L100 is a mere introduction -- 4 hours of TERF (and I use that word loosely). Students spend most of their time trying to figure out which end of the chart is up. Ops in the day of NAVRIP looks at these flights as an annoyance and rushes the students so that the squadron can make its production goals; therefore, keeping the CO out of hotwater with the Commodore and the Airboss.

The point of my previous post was that we need to put more emphasis on the post-NATOPS check syllabus than is done today. You need a few day TERFs and a few night TERFs before a student has an idea what he/she is supposed to do in the real world. If we are going to expect an FRP to come out and go right to the desert, basic day and night TERF is a undergraduate skill set. Graduate level skill sets (e.g. those taught by the individual squadrons, Weps Schools, and NSAWC) would be integrating TERF flying into a combined arms environment. In the days before ACTC, the RAG prepped you to be able to jump right in and go chase subs. Again, you would get you graduate level training as you progressed through H2P/HAC, but you were ready to go on a mission as soon as you had your admin upchit. We have lost that somewhere along the way -- and need to get back to it.