Navy helo community....what's the latest news?

[hscs]

Dudes it's been a while, hope everyone's ok. Some updates...

- Armed Helo; first kits will go to HSC-3 this year, then HSC-8, they'll transition after they return from the next deployment. HSC-25 will get one for the USS Freedom (LCS-1) deployment next year...or the next...or the year after that.....
- OAMCM in coming soon, AN/AQS-20A scheduled to finish Oprational Test in Sep, AMNS is close behind.
- Guns, they are M-230, GAU-17 and GAU-21, that's what we're buying.
- Riverine Squadrons are here...HSC support is a requirement but currently not part of the Helo Master Plan (not enough 60S)
- Focused HCS NSW mission will NOT be adopted by HSC-84/85 with the 60S, it is an HSC primary mission area among many others, not a full time SOCOM asset, those days are gone.
- M-230 30mm forward firing gun (same as the Apache) is being tested as a proof of concept thanks to an NSAWC small boat tactics requirement study, not part of the MH-60S program yet but it's getting attention very quickly.
- HSC(CVW) will not do OAMCM but will undergo ground/sim at FRS.

Last time I checked, the OAMCM was in DT, not OT. As far as I know, VX-1 hasn't touched the gear.

HSC-84 is keeping its mission. That is really its only mission. I don't see them being replaced by anyone in the near future. Meanwhile, GEN Brown actually mentioned during an interview that he was looking for a way to increase SOF mobility via naval air assets. I still wouldn't expect SOCOM to "buy" a squadron anytime soon.

The GAU-17 looks all sexy -- but it is going to require a lot of work. It has quite a bit more moving parts that need TLC, when compared to the -240/21. There will need to be quite a learning curve for the AWs. Once the -17 is singing -- it takes care of business.

NCEA will be a HUGE problem. Current NCEA for 7.62mm is a joke -- and does nothing for proficiency. The GAU-17 chews through a lot of ammo. The M230 and rockets will also need to be funded. That is a lot of money for training rounds. Hopefully, the same cheap skate that came up with the current NCEA is gone.

Wouldn't count on the LCS -- program just was put on hold to investigate some issues. HSC-25 is meant to relieve another unit, who is already in place.

 

[hscs]

Think CSAR

Don't think that this is such a good idea -- get in and get out fast. The wings will cause quite a number of issues not conducive to the mission. Beisides, if it was really viable, the Pavehawks would have bought them a long time ago -- and then the Navy would be getting the ones that the USAF sh-tcanned.

 

[1rotorhead]

Excellent point about the NCEA hscs. If the 160th can't keep current/qualified crews on their DAP's, I'd be surprised if the Navy can. No way you're taking wings with strores on a csar either. The SOF mission is perfect for the Block III.

 

[H60Gunner]

Don't think that this is such a good idea -- get in and get out fast. The wings will cause quite a number of issues not conducive to the mission. Beisides, if it was really viable, the Pavehawks would have bought them a long time ago -- and then the Navy would be getting the ones that the USAF sh-tcanned.

Excellent point, I sometimes get wrapped up in the "more fire power is better" idea. It is, however, another tool for the tool box. Looks NCEA is still a battle. I was involved in the "green tip" ammo fight, but that's a whole 'nother story!

 

[hscs]

Not familiar with the "green tip" ammo fight...

I could see the wings as used for a CAS asset or on an armed Recce, in addition, to the reason that we are getting them (counter small boat threat).

And if the army guys can't keep their guys current, I don't know how we will get it done...

 

[bert]

I would add one thing on the subject of community selection (and it would apply to selection out of primary as well): 'fly with your friends'. It is hard to get a true feeling for the communities without being in them: your personality will have as much effect on your happiness within a given group as that group's dynamics will. Looking at the community that the majority of your buds have gone to over the last year or so (as well as considering which instructors seem like the kind of folks you would go have a beer with) can give you some good guidance. (And if a lot of the folks you 'forget' to invite to your parties are ending up in one community, well that might give you a hint also).

Picking a community by mission can be a crapshoot - you don't really know what you will enjoy until you actually get a chance to go do it. For helos, HSC and HSM will end up with enough missions each that you ought to be able to find something you like in either.

 

[Gatordev]

Gator, that was the most frustrating thing to me..

We were to the point where "Release Consent" was the only thing that needed to be pressed.. And called off by SWOs afraid to take action.

The 60B can do some amazing stuff for a 300# girl in a size 10 dress.
The 60R is all that and more..

The tactical achillies heel is the fact that you have to get permission from SWOs to do anything..

Maybe Airwing HSM sqadrons will change that..

The sea-stories I heard involved the SWOs, but the actual killjoy was much higher than the ships CO/TAO. The ship is just one link in the chain and sometimes it's not the messenger's fault. I have no real evidence to back it up, but on a CD Ops deployment, we had a Block 1 but no colimnator or -299 and wing (a 7th fleet det had the only other asset the squadron owned at the time). The ship did have Hellfires onboard, and if we had had our gear, I honestly think our CO would have let us shoot at a ship that was causing all kinds of logistical nightmares for everyone in theater. Again, I only have my intuition to back that up, but just putting it out there that it's not always the SWO's fault. Of course, why let them know about that...

@hscs:

Excellent point about NCEA. Truly ridiculous. One of the reasons I was given as the squadron weaps guy was that there was no rounds to be had at the time. Supposedly a lot of it was ear-marked for the ground guys in-country.

@bert:

It's a good technique as far as choosing communities, but as those still awaiting selection must remember, in the end, it's what the Navy wants. Several weeks before I selected, almost everyone got HSL East, regardless of their personalities.

 

[bert]

Too true, but you may as well ask for what you want. The sooner you learn that the worst the Navy can do is say no, the happier your career can be.

 

[Gatordev]

No arguments here.

 

[Cyclic]

This IS the latest....

Last time I checked, the OAMCM was in DT, not OT. As far as I know, VX-1 hasn't touched the gear.

True, still on DT, PMA-299 sched revision (Rev 56) has OT starting in Aug and finishing at the end of Sep, that's for AN/AQS-20.

HSC-84 is keeping its mission. That is really its only mission. I don't see them being replaced by anyone in the near future.

Sorry but the answer is no, pre transition...yes but I said that it will not carry over to th 60S, the ROC&POE says so, so does Helo CONOPS and those are signed by the AIRBOSS. Like I said, those days of focused SOCOM will soon be gone.

Wouldn't count on the LCS -- program just was put on hold to investigate some issues. HSC-25 is meant to relieve another unit, who is already in place.

It was put on a 30 day hold, the result was a couple of high ranking Program Managers replaced, LCS-3 is on indefinite hold, LCS-1 (Lockheed Martin) is delayed a year with an estimated delivery to C3F date of Oct next year. LCS-2 (General Dynamics) is still on track with a delay of about 6 months.

Like I said, it will all be briefed at NHA...

 

[Stearmann4]

When our gunship guys aren't deployed, they're on the range 3-6 hours a night, at least 3 times a week, and can knock the window out of a HiLux in the bump rolling out a 60 deg bank. Amazing shots. Hell, even us assault guys shoot between 60-100K per acrft on the range 2-3 days a month. However the resources to keep all the crews that proficient are expensive to say the least. The DAPs/AH-6s have no other tasking except to eliminate tagets on demand. Until the Navy identifies a particular, tactical requirement to devote those kind of resources, it would seem to get handled casually as another METL task.

 

[hscs]

Sorry but the answer is no, pre transition...yes but I said that it will not carry over to th 60S, the ROC&POE says so, so does Helo CONOPS and those are signed by the AIRBOSS. Like I said, those days of focused SOCOM will soon be gone.

Yeah, but that is 5 years from now for -84. Oh, and by the way, all the conops in the world won't take away an RFF. OPCON always trumps ADCON.

Yes, the ROC/POE will align, but who is going to go when the call comes -- another HSC squadron without the depth of experience as -84?

 

[hscs]

When our gunship guys aren't deployed, they're on the range 3-6 hours a night, at least 3 times a week, and can knock the window out of a HiLux in the bump rolling out a 60 deg bank. Amazing shots. Hell, even us assault guys shoot between 60-100K per acrft on the range 2-3 days a month. However the resources to keep all the crews that proficient are expensive to say the least. The DAPs/AH-6s have no other tasking except to eliminate tagets on demand. Until the Navy identifies a particular, tactical requirement to devote those kind of resources, it would seem to get handled casually as another METL task.

Unfortunately you all seem to do better. If I remember correctly, the NCEA for an HS gunner is something like 600 rds every 90 days. Don't quote me on that, but hopefully, you get the point at how pathetic the Navy's NCEA is.

 

[1rotorhead]

No offense meant to Stearmann4. I was talking about 3rd Bat.

 

[1rotorhead]

A lot of things can and will change over the next few years regarding missions and capabilities. The navy helo community has done things over the last few years that no one imagined before 9/11. As these more capable aircraft come on line you better believe there will be units begging to use them. Instead of leaders saying we can't do something, we need them to be saying we can and will.