Jarhead

[Fly Navy]

Maybe the little blurb by the Marine when they came upon the highway of death....'they were just trying to escape."

I haven't seen the movie or read the book, but that sounds like typical hollywood and typical dove right there. Why would you ever let the enemy escape unless it fit into your plan of action. When the enemy is retreating, their backs are turned... perfect opportunity!

 

[skidkid]

Say nothing of the attrocities those guys committed while in Kuwait. i realize I am projecting much mroe competence toward those guys than they deserve but you have to assume they are retreating to reconstitute a defense somewhere donw the road so obviously you destroy them.

 

[phrogpilot73]

I can't believe that they would allow them to go and shoot off their weapons like that at the end. Wouldn't that constitute a breakdown in discipline?

Nah, we do it all the time... It helps pass the time.

Every Marine I've ever interacted with (not just instructors at OCS) loved the Corps, was disciplined, respectful, highly professional...this movie makes it seem like none of them are.

You need to interact with more Marines. When you get to the fleet, you'll encounter $hitheads like Swofford, who think they're owed something by the Marine Corps.

...and there was that guy during the Indoc live-fire who panicked, spazzed out, and got shot. I was a little dumbfounded about that. I don't know why, but I think it was something about being trained to stay down and keep crawling when under fire and the way this guy 'forgot' how to do that...

A guy in my MCT platoon got shot in the leg while we were doing live fire. He ran outside of his lane, i.e. - he zigged when he should have zagged.

Guys, those of you learned in the ways of the Corps, please help me out here. Am I completely off or was this movie just full of sh*t?

I haven't seen the movie, but I've read the book... Yes it pissed me off because organizations (Navy, Army, Marine Corps, Air Force, Coast Guard, and probably even the airlines) are never as sweet on the inside as they are on the outside looking in. But you don't get pissed off and write a book because you think that it sucked.

 

[Ryoukai]

Maybe the little blurb by the Marine when they came upon the highway of death....'they were just trying to escape." IMO, that little comment I suppose meant we slaughtered innocent soldiers who were retreating from Kuwait. Of course the little comment of we will never have to come back, also seemed to be a dig.

The way I took that line wasn't as, "Take that, military!" but more along the lines of a bunch of kids (my age or younger) coming across a line of completely fvcked up cars and trucks and making an observation. If I were in their shoes and came across a convoy of ruined civillian vehicles I'm pretty sure my thoughts would be more along those lines than, "clearly they're trying to form a defensive position."
The lines about never having to go back into the desert were probably part of Hollywood's super clever ironic poke at the current involvement in Iraq but, yet again, I took the lines a different way. Instead of seeing it as some lame liberal dig I though of them as coming from Pfc.No-name who has been sitting in a sh!thole for quite sometime and not having any fun at all. He's real excited to be leaving and, as far as he himself is concerned, has no intentions of ever going back.

 

[theblakeness]

I saw the movie yesterday. Overall I have to admit that I wasnt all that impressed. I was really looking forward to seeing this movie and I tried to go opening night, but it really wasnt anything to write home about. Im not even talking about the message being sent in the movie or whether it portrayed the Marine Corp realistically or not...the movie was just poorly written and poorly put together.

There were a lot of parts that I felt were really drawn out and their were other parts showed that I absolutely could not figure out the significance of. I felt many hints of Full Metal Jacket in the movie and I thought the ending was terrible...i mean the movie just...ends! I think someone on these boards mentioned something about Swofford trying to pass Marine myths as actual events that happened. I dont know any Marine myths but I do know that the part where the guy gets the video from home and it turns out to be a video of his wife screwing the neighbor is an OLD urban legend thats been around for a long time.

Having all that said..there were parts that I thought were good. I really liked all the shots looking through the gas mask..thought that was well done. I thought the CO was hilarious..i mean he got me motivated. Foxx's speech in the oil fields was creepy, and the scene of them watching Apocalypse Now was funny too.


by the way...at the end of the movie when he makes his spiel and the movie fades out, a guy at the other end of the theatre coughed "pussy". I about died laughing at that point.

 

[bunk22]

Say nothing of the attrocities those guys committed while in Kuwait. i realize I am projecting much mroe competence toward those guys than they deserve but you have to assume they are retreating to reconstitute a defense somewhere donw the road so obviously you destroy them.

Exactly. From what I've read (being a mid at the time), many of those Iraqi types retreating had just raped, pillaged, burned, etc, etc during their occupation of Kuwait. IMO, cry me a river for the enemy being knocked out of comission, or perhaps in this case, slaughtered.

 

[a_m]

I'll say that I definately say plenty of marines in that movie that I know of in real life- from NCO's to idiotic officers. No matter what college boy says, he has nothing to base it off. All I can say is that in my short time in the fleet (
which I'll readily admit) is that you'll see people like that hate the military everywhere you go. To act like it doesn't exist is just retarded.

 

[jamnww]

I'll say that I definately say plenty of marines in that movie that I know of in real life- from NCO's to idiotic officers. No matter what college boy says, he has nothing to base it off. All I can say is that in my short time in the fleet (
which I'll readily admit) is that you'll see people like that hate the military everywhere you go. To act like it doesn't exist is just retarded.

Like we already covered above, we can all find examples of the Marines in the movie that we have met in the Corps, even those with limited exposure. I don't think anyone is just simply ignoring it but that doesn't mean that we have to be supportive of the way the movie handled it. There have been instances of individual attrocities in just about every war but to then make a movie and concentrate solely the attrocities and not balance that with the other events (in this movies case, personalities) is IMO in poor taste.

Are there idiotic officers? Of course, but do they make up half of the officers in the Marine Corps? God I hope not. Are their abusive NCOs? Sure, but again not all of them are that way. Are their idiotic redneck Marines running around making insulting gestures at muslim women? I don't doubt if for a second, but I am sure you see the trend by now.

Anyway, like I said this is all IMO and I think it is clear that he had a message to put across, and good on him for that but I don't agree with it.

 

[riley]

I don't think Swofford is trying to put a message across. From what I remember of his book (I read it when it first came out, so my memory may be a bit foggy) it was more of a coffeeshop philosopher expounding on his thoughts and experiences while in the Corps. It did not seem to have an agenda, he just seemed a bit bitter.

Several have posted on the movie didn't fully cover combined arms of the MAGTF, or it just focused on bad NCOs or bad officers or bad Marines. Well, what do you remember - all the average to above average people, or the sh!tbirds. When you are a 20 year old college student, do you really look at the big picture, or are you focused on what is happening to you and your friends?

I think the argument should not be over accuracy (yes there are some sea stories portrayed as true) because a lot of what was portrayed happened. I think we should argue if our dirty laundry should be shown for all to see.

 

[A4sForever]

I don't think Swofford is trying to put a message across.........

I would have to disagree based on the two interviews with Swofford that I saw about 2-3 years ago. He definitely had an agenda then .... and if you want a "war" movie to get produced in Hollywood these days, you have to come across as having a tortured conscience, much angst over your "experiences" (real or imagined), and be filled with latent soul-searching to find a "meaning" in all of it.

It HAS to be a retro-Vietnam experience in self-examination .... or it doesn't get big money backing ....

 

[Lawman]

I would have to disagree based on the two interviews with Swofford that I saw about 2-3 years ago. He definitely had an agenda then .... and if you want a "war" movie to get produced in Hollywood these days, you have to come across as having a tortured conscience, much angst over your "experiences" (real or imagined), and be filled with latent soul-searching to find a "meaning" in all of it.

It HAS to be a retro-Vietnam experience in self-examination .... or it doesn't get big money backing ....

I think thats one of the reasons I was so happy to see Black Hawk Down done the way it was. I had a class with a Ranger who had been on the Convoy that went in to get them back out he was very happy with the way they were potrayed in that movie. And they do show that while no not everybody is thrilled about ever minute they are spending it didnt have that "Lets go Frag the LT and kill some civilians" garbage like some of the more famous Nam movies. There were scenes in BHD like when you saw the Look on Durants face when he's told to take up the position that has already resulted in one aircraft limping home and one aircraft down. But he goes in anyway. You see the Rangers and Delta Operators get back and just look physically beaten but then you see them loading up to go back out there because they have comrades who are still out there and its there job.

I can see where a lot of the guys who have been there are getting angry. They dont have the attitude of "This doesnt happen" but they want it made clear that guys like this are not the standard. Hollywood has a good history of ignoring that point in any field it tries to potray in a movie. Believe me I feel you pain, everytime I see Training Day come on a TV I want to put my fist through something.

 

[AllAmerican75]

I saw it tonight and I thought it was pretty good. I liked Jamie Foxx because he was a pretty badass NCO, and I don't think it was as political as it could have been. Now I really want to got read the book.

 

[Screamtruth]

Well then it's obvious you've never been to the fleet......

Agree.

 

[Screamtruth]

Or talked to very many E-1's, 2's, and 3's.

What?

 

[jamnww]

Got some good advice from a buddy of mine who was in Oki with Swafford's sister Btn and he said that Swafford's STAY Plt had the worst reputation on the island as a bunch of whiny racist slackers. Anyway, just thought I would share...