First of Navy's new CWO Aviators pin on their wings!

[Flash]

I'm fairly certain that the Royal Navy does not have a degree requirement for any of their officers. I pretty sure they are tested on aptitude and potential and given a shot at OCS.

Neither does the Israeli Air Force.

But there are some differences that you have to keep in mind between the countries. Britain has national-level exams (A-levels) for secondary school subjects that can provide a pretty good indication of someone's aptitude, all we have are the SAT and ACT. Israel starts looking out for prospective pilots pretty early on, think early high school, and they only pick the best. And their 'flight school' lasts a lot longer, with college-level courses early in the training program.

So you really are comparing apples and oranges when you compare our officer accession programs with others.

 

[LazersGoPEWPEW]

My ability to sleep through the bow cats and man-over-boards scares me. I am pretty sure that if my smoke alarm went off at home, I would just roll over and smile as the flames tickled my toes.

I know that feeling. I was at Emory University for a seminar awhile back and the fire alarm went off and everyone evacuated except me and my roommate because we didn't even hear it after people banged on our doors and everything.

 

[SemperGumbi]

I think anyone who has been around at least a moderate amount of Enlisted folks knows there are some great ones and some shoddy ones. DUH!

Although not a steadfast rule, often the really motivated, together ones are already striving to get that 4 year degree—or have it. I think we can agree on that, too? Yes?

Ergo....there is in fact a correlation between an Enlisted man/woman with a degree and said Enlisted person being on the high-side of who you would WANT to go Officer.

It isn't just the learning that occurs in college, it is the motivation to go to it. And to graduate.

I know some guys who barely skimmed through high-school who possess the skills necessary to fly an aircraft, no doubt. But how would Big Navy delineate them from the other schmuks who have similar stats? They can’t. College is one more screening process. And there are turds who get through college. But if flight school was an all-comers event, there would certainly be more issues.

The chances of having a qualified, well rounded, intelligent, hard worker are higher when looking at the ranks of college graduates. And when it all comes down to it, recruiting is a numbers and percentages game: make your highest percentage bet.

 

[skillz]

On a side note, I thought I remembered reading from the original message several years back that the flying CWO's were restricted to helo and maritime communities. Talking w/ one of the warrants the other week, he mentioned that they are eligible for every platform w/ the exception of Rhinos. Has there been a change in policy, or am I just remembering incorrectly?

Does anyone know about this? I thought it was only helos and P-3's as well....Just wondering if they were really considering CWO's in the jet community. What are your thoughts?

 

[Harrier Dude]

Does anyone know about this? I thought it was only helos and P-3's as well....Just wondering if they were really considering CWO's in the jet community. What are your thoughts?

I don't see why they should be restricted by platform at all. The only reason (and it's not a good one) is community "self-protection" in terms of future billets. I.e. the Hornet community, who holds the most power in NAVAIR, is saying "If you want to let them fly, then fine. Just don't take away my job."

I'm sure that the stated (vice actual) reasons are dealing with mission complexity, but that's bullshit.

Rice-bowl protection, in a nutshell.

 

[skillz]

I completely agree. But from what I've "heard" the reason it is restricted to those two communities is because the pilot to "check in the box" billet/career moves ratio is greater there than in the jet community. Don't 18 squadrons have like 15 pilots? So there would really be no need for the CWO's to come in and fly jets so those pilots can pilots can fly a desk...No matter what big Navy's reason is for this program, my personal opinion is that it is a good opportunity for those enlisted sailors that truely deserve it.

 

[BourneID]

Does anyone know about this? I thought it was only helos and P-3's as well....Just wondering if they were really considering CWO's in the jet community. What are your thoughts?

Not happening! For reasons aformentioned. We were targeted to communities with lower DH screen rates/ Multiple Flying Billets.

 

[skillz]

Not happening! For reasons aformentioned. We were targeted to communities with lower DH screen rates/ Multiple Flying Billets.

Thanks BourneID, I was waiting for one of you CWO's to chime in...I didn't think it would happen, however, I have been hearing things through the grapevine, through some very respectable sources. From what I hear this program is really picking up some speed, but we'll see after "they" evaluate it. I'm going to PM you, I would love to know how your doing.

 

[MIDNJAC]

Not happening! For reasons aformentioned. We were targeted to communities with lower DH screen rates/ Multiple Flying Billets.

Yeah, that was what I thought. I agree that there isn't a "skill" oriented reason for making the distinction, but I understand the career implications this makes.

 

[bobbybrock]

As an former Active Army bubba I was always in favor of the degree requirement. Then I'd get some 19 or 20 year old stud who would debunk that. But these guys were usually the exception and not the rule. The Army program has changed since the early 90's. The old program was completely structured and the WOC was subject to lots of stress. Civilian pilots in most cases will never face the kind of stress a military aviator will face. Be it terrain flight over Baghdad or landing on a ship at night.
Fullfillng your requirements as a student as well as a commissiong program is a stressful enviorment. The Army realized at one time that a good substitue for this enviorment was the old WOFT program. I had a friend from college complete the old NAVCAD program back in the day and it seemed somewhat similar.

 

[Ave8tor]

Since my experience with the Navy-way of doing things is somewhat limited, I have a few questions about this program.

From what I understand, CWO designated aviators are going to augment the Junior Officer population in the squadrons. Since this sounds like a normal path to Naval aviation, what's the perks or drawbacks? Does this program have limitations such as airframe selection, mission capabilities, or promotions? Kinda sounds like the Marine LDO option but without many of the restrictions. All that I see is that you get to the same goal with only a two-year degree (plus the enlisted time).

Anyway, sounds like a great opportunity for the enlisted guys. Wish the Marines had something like this, which would have saved me a ton of time and money! Best of luck to those in this program!

 

[skillz]

Since my experience with the Navy-way of doing things is somewhat limited, I have a few questions about this program.

From what I understand, CWO designated aviators are going to augment the Junior Officer population in the squadrons. Since this sounds like a normal path to Naval aviation, what's the perks or drawbacks? Does this program have limitations such as airframe selection, mission capabilities, or promotions? Kinda sounds like the Marine LDO option but without many of the restrictions. All that I see is that you get to the same goal with only a two-year degree (plus the enlisted time).

INDIVIDUAL CAREER CONSIDERATIONS:
A. UPON WINGING, SELECTEES WILL INCUR AN 8 YEAR MINIMUM SERVICE
REQUIREMENT (MSR) FOR PILOTS, 6 YEAR MSR FOR NAVAL FLIGHT OFFICERS.
B. TOUR LENGTHS: SEA 36 MONTHS, SHORE 33 MONTHS.
C. ELIGIBLE ASSIGNMENTS: VP, VQ (P), VQ (T), HSC, HSL AND
ASSOCIATED FRS, TRACOM, NSAWC AND WEAPON SCHOOLS.
D. SELECTEES ARE NOT ELIGIBLE FOR DEPARTMENT HEAD (DH) TOURS AND WILL FILL JUNIOR OFFICER (JO) BILLETS ONLY.