Colombian Prostitutes - Good Times or Career Enders?

[Pags]

Hammering people for shit you did as a JO = Hypocrite.
Hammering people for shit you did as a Senior O = Fucking Hypocrite

Despite the fact that this argument keeps coming up in this thread any other thread witha PC theme to it, it's not really a tenable argument with respect to being a leader. regardless of what some may have done in the past, current leadership is responsible for enforcing current policy. As a leader, what I happen to think about any policy doesn't matter one bit. DOD and DON don't care what my personal thoughts are on EO, human trafficking, gays, NWUs, flathatting, or the NAMP, to name a few. They pay me to enforce and support current policy. As an officer I can't stand in front of the Sailors and say things like "this policy is stupid" or "I don't care if you use a hooker this port call" because The Man can and should fire me for that.

At some point, those guys need to be disciplined not only for the reasons Brett listed, but also as an example for all the agents that are doing the right thing. Letting these guys get off with a nothing more than a slap on the wrist shows the organization that standards and rules don't matter and will undermine good order and discipline. Good agents who do the right thing will become cynical and wonder why they bother when dirtbags are allowed to stay in and get away with breaking the rules.

 

[Flash]

......Dubai- Most of the Russian/Slavic/Euro hookers are there. A lot of them do it because they can pay for college complete with living expenses, buy a house, or start their own buisiness back home by hooking for 6 months there.

The ONLY place where I got even a tingle of a human trafficking vibe by observing and talking to the women has been in Africa, and nobody went near the hookers there for fear of AIDS.......

Shockingly enough trafficking of women and forced prostitution does occur in the 'first world'. I am not sure I would rely on a 'tingle' to know if the women were there by choice or force, someone can put up a good act when their lives are on the line and the boss is watching.

 

[HAL Pilot]

First of all, whether HAL's autocorrect rules or he was trying to sneak one by, that's funny.

The autocorrect rules...I wish I was that sneaky.

 

[Brett327]

Shockingly enough trafficking of women and forced prostitution does occur in the 'first world'. I am not sure I would rely on a 'tingle' to know if the women were there by choice or force, someone can put up a good act when their lives are on the line and the boss is watching.

I can just see the sensitive and erudite MB sitting down with the local sex workers (with whom he may or may not have just solicited a business arrangement) to have a substantive, meaningful discussion on the "ins and outs" of prostitution in the 21st century. I envision a lot of active listening, head nodding and words of encouragement.

Not doubting what you've said, MB, just engaging in a little humorous satire.

 

[Gatordev]

I've been shore patrol or senior shore patrol on 5 continents, some 1st world, some 3rd, and most in the middle. (UAE, Turkey, etc).

I've been in my fair share of whorehouses, and other places where prostituites congregate. I've talked to my fair share of them. Since I'm not sure what the statue of limitations is on it, I'm not commenting on if I ever used their services.

Dubai- Most of the Russian/Slavic/Euro hookers are there. A lot of them do it because they can pay for college complete with living expenses, buy a house, or start their own buisiness back home by hooking for 6 months there.

The ONLY place where I got even a tingle of a human trafficking vibe by observing and talking to the women has been in Africa, and nobody went near the hookers there for fear of AIDS.

And I've been to some places (especially in Ecuador) that demonstrate otherwise. I went to a couple of places with NCIS (not as SP, but as a liaison with them for the ship) that were sketchy. I don't mean dive bar sketchy, I mean you can see the despair in the girls' eyes sketchy. Even the CO girls in Panama at all the several local joints that everyone always goes to aren't completely there voluntarily. Yes, they've agreed to go there, but they are there as indentured servants, working off a debt, usually to help pay for their kid(s)/family back home.

My point is that your experience is anecdotal, as is mine. None of us here can definitively say that prostitution is or is not a victimless crime, because there's so many examples out there.

All that said, I agree... get your rocks off legally, and if you're paying for it, so be it.

 

[Recovering LSO]

Stop being a bunch of puritannical uptight bitches and yesmen.

Oh the irony. Considering the current political winds within the beltway, calling any of these people "puritannical" is amusing (assuming that you're directing your ire towards those in positions to affect these decisions and not simply getting pissy with members of an interweb forum)... These are the same "puritannical" leaders who revoked DADT, the same ole' fashioned folks who put women on submarines and into the USMC's IOC. These are the same old Bible thumping "Puritannical" insiders that put diversity at the top of the to do list.

Could it be that folks of various stripes (capital R and D) find prostitution problematic and are in positions to make policy WRT it?

Or things just aren't as good as they were years ago when we could hire all the hookers we wanted, keep women in the office, keep blacks in the galley, and smoke in our cockpits - not everything in the past was the right/best way.

 

[Brett327]

Oh the irony. Considering the current political winds within the beltway, calling any of these people "puritannical" is amusing (assuming that you're directing your ire towards those in positions to affect these decisions and not simply getting pissy with members of an interweb forum)... These are the same "puritannical" leaders who revoked DADT, the same ole' fashioned folks who put women on submarines and into the USMC's IOC. These are the same old Bible thumping "Puritannical" insiders that put diversity at the top of the to do list.

Could it be that folks of various stripes (capital R and D) find prostitution problematic and are in positions to make policy WRT it?

Or things just aren't as good as they were years ago when we could hire all the hookers we wanted, keep women in the office, keep blacks in the galley, and smoke in our cockpits - not everything in the past was the right/best way.

Hey, MB had a puritanical CO once, ergo all senior officers are puritans. Stop trying to impose your morals on him.

 

[Jim123]

and smoke in our cockpits

My T/M/S still has ashtrays in the cockpit! OK, only about half of the birds on the flight line do, and nobody actually uses those ashtrays anyway but there's no denying the awesomeness of it.

/threadjack
Back to our regularly scheduled serious discussion.

 

[CAMike]

Oh the irony. Considering the current political winds within the beltway, calling any of these people "puritannical" is amusing (assuming that you're directing your ire towards those in positions to affect these decisions and not simply getting pissy with members of an interweb forum)... These are the same "puritannical" leaders who revoked DADT, the same ole' fashioned folks who put women on submarines and into the USMC's IOC.

Understood. I think this line of thinking is a bit of a reach. To think that the CO's of the service just went with the flows of the political winds is probably not how it went down. I believe Marsellus and his number 2(Biden) and number 3 turd(Holder) told Ray Maybus and his peers that the revocation of DADT was going to happen asap and they better darn well communicate that fact to their staffs accordingly. In other words, it was shoved down most O-6 throats. I don't see todays o-7's and above as puritanical, but more traditional in the most reverent sense of that word. New Age thought is a gamble that most Big Navy Management probably don't embrace on a day to day basis. Call me a risk averse SWO but I find it hard to believe that the O-7's just rolled over and said " Hey it's cool Marsellus"- We all think it's time to accept gays with open arms.

Colombian Workers? (deafening silence in private)

 

[Recovering LSO]

Understood. I think this line of thinking is a bit of a reach. To think that the CO's of the service just went with the flows of the political winds is probably not how it went down. I believe Marsellus and his number 2(Biden) and number 3 turd(Holder) told Ray Maybus and his peers that the revocation of DADT was going to happen asap and they better darn well communicate that fact to their staffs accordingly. In other words, it was shoved down most O-6 throats. I don't see todays o-7's and above as puritanical, but more traditional in the most reverent sense of that word. New Age thought is a gamble that most Big Navy Management probably don't embrace on a day to day basis. Call me a risk averse SWO but I find it hard to believe that the O-7's just rolled over and said " Hey it's cool Marsellus"- We all think it's time to accept gays with open arms.

Colombian Workers? (deafening silence in private)

You're not thinking high enough. The people deciding that DADT was going away are (in my judgement) the same people who have decided that trafficking in people (which in their definition includes prostitution) is the cause du jour, are the same people who want women on subs, are the same people who want commissioning ceremonies to look like Benetton ads, are the same people who.... you get it. This isn't driven by anyone with an "O" in front of a number. Think SECNAV - think CinC - that level. Which is why the application of the "puritannical" label is funny to me. It might be the only time those individuals have been labeled such on this website.

 

[squorch2]

"The policy is puritanical because I want to do it."

(hehehehe do it)

 

[Brett327]

Yikes.

 

[RadicalDude]

words

Marsellus[sic]?

 

[Brett327]

You know, that black guy... from the movies.

 

[RadicalDude]

I got the Pulp Fiction reference, just not how it related to CinC... Neither of them look like a bitch?