Career Reflections by Pickle

[Recovering LSO]

General P-3 community mindset question:

There's a JO in my squadron who woke up the other day all sorts of congested. He called the ODO and told them that he wouldn't be able to fly that day, but he'd probably be better the next day. Cool. End of story. Said JO lives with another JO who is a VP NFO. VP NFO apparently looks at my squadron mate with some amazement. She explains to him that if itwere her she would have had to have gone to sick call, been given a down chit, hand carried it to the squadron safety O and OPSO O, find someone else to take the flight, and then probably viewed as a weak player... Is this an outlier scenario unique to this individual and her squadron or is this fairly common?

 

[scoober78]

Well, like anywhere, sometimes yes, sometimes no. I would also caveat that with the standard it depends on the person. (Both the sick one and the leadership) I went hard med down at a forward deployment site as the EWAC (aircraft commander) as one of four crews. I was hard down for almost two weeks. We cancelled several missions as a result. No retribution, recrimination etc...You're sick, you're sick was the general attitude. I know personally, I've NEVER given anyone a hard time who said "I'm too sick to fly." To me, that's a good on them. No, it's not a community wide attitude. Like anywhere though, the individual personalities at work make all the difference. I had a solid reputation and people knew my dedication to crew/mission. Were I <ahem> less well thought of, I could picture some questions being asked. You get a front office that looks at it that way and there goes the squadron...

 

[Flugelman]

You get a front office that looks at it that way and there goes the squadron...

As someone who spent > 5 years in one squadron I can attest to seeing this happen. We had Skippers I would walk thru fire for and a couple I wouldn't piss on if they were on fire. A front office that doesn't trust it's officers and senior rates can't (and doesn't) expect them to function up to their capabilities.

In my last VP squadron I wrote the daily flight schedule and was the primary go-between for flight crews and the OpsO. If someone called and said they were down, they came off the schedule, no questions asked. If they were faking it, it would be found out eventually and the situation rectified. There were only a couple of individuals that even tried it during my tenure.

I saw a young LtJg driven to his knees during a descent back into NUW because of "a little congestion". We had to climb back to altitude to relieve his distress and inch our way down as he tried to clear the blockage. It ain't fun.

 

[xj220]

I saw a young LtJg driven to his knees during a descent back into NUW because of "a little congestion". We had to climb back to altitude to relieve his distress and inch our way down as he tried to clear the blockage. It ain't fun.

Happened to me on a commercial flight and it was awful. That's why I always have a bottle of Afrin in my arm pocket in case anyone on the crew needs it. Works like a charm. As for squadron mentality, I've been lucky with mine however it always a huge safety discussion for perceived pressure for mission accomplishment. I know I've felt it from mainly the DHs trying to weasel that extra qual or a bit more flight time, etc out of each flight. It always irks me when they try and write such intricate schedules only to have them blow up without any contingency plans. It happened last several times, you think this time it'll be any different?

 

[C420sailor]

That's why I always have a bottle of Afrin in my arm pocket in case anyone on the crew needs it.

This is such great gouge. I didn't start carrying Afrin until I got to the FRS. The docs should give it to you with your admin upchit at check-in.

 

[phrogpilot73]

Safety violators! No self-medication! Safety violators!

 

[Pags]

General P-3 community mindset question:

There's a JO in my squadron who woke up the other day all sorts of congested. He called the ODO and told them that he wouldn't be able to fly that day, but he'd probably be better the next day. Cool. End of story. Said JO lives with another JO who is a VP NFO. VP NFO apparently looks at my squadron mate with some amazement. She explains to him that if itwere her she would have had to have gone to sick call, been given a down chit, hand carried it to the squadron safety O and OPSO O, find someone else to take the flight, and then probably viewed as a weak player... Is this an outlier scenario unique to this individual and her squadron or is this fairly common?

I was feeling under the weather one time in my fleet squadron, just your basic crud, so I asked my DH if I could skip the 0600 PT and stay in bed a couple of extra hours. I was told, "no, if you don't want to go to pt then you need to go to sick call." I tried to convince him that I was just sick and that I didn't need a down chit and to be pulled off the sked for a week, that with a few extra hours of sleep and I'd be ok, but to no avail. Because I didn't want the stupid down chit I came to pt and asked ops to keep me off the sked for a day or so, but last time I asked that clown for a favor.

On the flip side, I've seen over achieves sick as dogs drag themselves in to work so the boss won't think they're weak sauce only to be dangerous in the aircraft or end up infecting the entire det. I eventually had to get the OIC to order people to stay home. When I was a DH I had to fight with my chief to convince him it was ok to send sick people home so they didn't get the whole office sick.

 

[scoolbubba]

Asking for permission was your first mistake.

 

[Brett327]

The policy in most squadrons I've been in (at least the Prowler squadrons) has been that people can take a sick day and down themselves, anything more than 24 hours merits a trip to the flight doc.

 

[NavAir42]

The policy in most squadrons I've been in (at least the Prowler squadrons) has been that people can take a sick day and down themselves, anything more than 24 hours merits a trip to the flight doc.

That was sort of how things worked in the two squadrons I've been in so far (VP and VT). Throw in the towel on day one and it's usually ok, especially in VT-land. While there was a little more pressure to perform in the VP world, I never had anyone ever give me or anyone else a hard time for getting sick. It happens, they change a pilot out on the schedule and it's generally not big deal. There were usually enough guys not on the flight schedule that plugging someone in to pinch hit didn't cause Armageddon.

 

[Pags]

Asking for permission was your first mistake.

Attendance was taken at PT. if you werent there and didn't have an official reason (late flight, etc) then you could expect to have a chat with the XO.

 

[picklesuit]

I was feeling under the weather one time in my fleet squadron, just your basic crud, so I asked my DH if I could skip the 0600 PT and stay in bed a couple of extra hours. I was told, "no, if you don't want to go to pt then you need to go to sick call." I tried to convince him that I was just sick and that I didn't need a down chit and to be pulled off the sked for a week, that with a few extra hours of sleep and I'd be ok, but to no avail. Because I didn't want the stupid down chit I came to pt and asked ops to keep me off the sked for a day or so, but last time I asked that clown for a favor.

On the flip side, I've seen over achieves sick as dogs drag themselves in to work so the boss won't think they're weak sauce only to be dangerous in the aircraft or end up infecting the entire det. I eventually had to get the OIC to order people to stay home. When I was a DH I had to fight with my chief to convince him it was ok to send sick people home so they didn't get the whole office sick.

Who the fuck has group PT? But seriously, as a former Skeds-O, if I got the same day "I can't fly" I wanted my guys to go to medical...if I had a heads up the day before, no problem, off the schedule for a day....malingering is malingering, there are some people who just seem to get sick more often, and some of us who would rather have to stitch an eardrum than go down...I am guilty of flying sick, but Afrin and pain-meds go a long way, guess I just can't miss a chance to get up in the air...

 

[jollygreen07]

Who the fuck has group PT?

VQ-3 does.

 

[scoober78]

Who the fuck has group PT? But seriously, as a former Skeds-O, if I got the same day "I can't fly" I wanted my guys to go to medical...if I had a heads up the day before, no problem, off the schedule for a day....malingering is malingering, there are some people who just seem to get sick more often, and some of us who would rather have to stitch an eardrum than go down...I am guilty of flying sick, but Afrin and pain-meds go a long way, guess I just can't miss a chance to get up in the air...

I said this until I watched one of my aircrew explode a sinus. It makes the ear drum look like a soft, wet kiss. He hadn't told me he was sick but it became clear when the lining of one of his maxillary sinuses came out his nose. Blood, mucus, tissue hanging out his nose. A grown-ass man writhing in pain on the floor of a plane... Not cool. He never flew again, can't ever dive, probably will never set foot on an airliner...You're high if you think that's worth it.

 

[Pags]

Who the fuck has group PT? But seriously, as a former Skeds-O, if I got the same day "I can't fly" I wanted my guys to go to medical...if I had a heads up the day before, no problem, off the schedule for a day....malingering is malingering, there are some people who just seem to get sick more often, and some of us who would rather have to stitch an eardrum than go down...I am guilty of flying sick, but Afrin and pain-meds go a long way, guess I just can't miss a chance to get up in the air...

Both squadrons I've been in have had regular PT.

Personally, if it comes to me being so sick I'm taking meds then I'm off the flight sked unless Doc says its ok if I fly with what I've been prescribed. Flying while self medicating may seem like no big deal, just good luck if you happen to prang a bird when you're self medicating.

Other than the one instance described above, I've never had any issues with a command giving me shit for being sick. On one det I got some food poisoning in the aircraft and knocked off the event. It was the first good weather we'd had in a week but I couldn't keep flying. As soon as we got the helo on the deck I was off and running to puke my guts out. No one who mattered ever gave me any grief over it. I got some good natured ribbing, but such is life. During the same det I had to go home for a week because my daughter had RSV. I caught RSV and was hard down for a week upon my return. The squadron kept another pilot on det longer, but no one ever questioned me not flying with the worst head cold I've ever had.