OCS 02Nov20 SNA/SNFO (Pilot/NFO) Board

[Ghost SWO]

Thanks for the insight! I haven't tested for ASTB yet (my recruiter wanted to get me cleared at MEPS first for some reason) so I hope that doesn't DQ me from proving my exceptionalism, as you put it haha

That's really last minute to send you to MEPS, have you take the ASTB, and submit the same day... Wow.

I meant exceptional as unusually good or outstanding, not that you're unusual or atypical. Everyone applying with waivers had something that DQ'd them, hence the waiver. ?

 

[jgoldman18]

That's really last minute to send you to MEPS, have you take the ASTB, and submit the same day... Wow.

I meant exceptional as unusually good or outstanding, not that you're unusual or atypical. Everyone applying with waivers had something that DQ'd them, hence the waiver. ?

Gotcha. Yea, I'm not testing for another couple of months. Shooting for January boards, or later if I don't feel prepared. (want to get it on the first try if possible)

 

[exNavyOffRec]

Make sure you guys push for waivers. If something is disqualifying that doesn't mean that's the end of it. They'll write waivers for exceptional candidates if it's within medical limits, or something is asymptomatic, etc.

Medical doesnt care if you a the perfect candidate or the guy that just meets minimums, they look at will it be an issue later on, they don't even see your GPA or anything about your professional experience, and just because you get through N3M doesn't mean NAMI will give an ok later on

 

[Ghost SWO]

Medical doesnt care if you a the perfect candidate or the guy that just meets minimums, they look at will it be an issue later on, they don't even see your GPA or anything about your professional experience, and just because you get through N3M doesn't mean NAMI will give an ok later on

I understand what you're saying. I think what I said was confusing because I didn't mean to say it that way if that's how it came across. Yes, a medical waiver has nothing to do with GPA and ASTB scores. I do know the MEPS Chief was in contact with my recruiter that day and I'm just saying it isn't the MEPS medical personnel that submit the waiver, it's the DoD personnel for your branch. So if your scores are sub-par they may not think it's even worth submitting the waiver request if they're not confident in the scores? I could be wrong, I'm just saying I would feel like I had a better shot at a waiver request and approval if the recruiter knew I was a great candidate and was fighting in my corner.

I was trying to reinforce the idea that their scores are very good and their recruiter knows that, so the recruiter may push hard for a waiver.

Can you explain what N3M and NAMI is and what the process is? I'm unfamiliar with those terms, some others may not know as well. Might correct my knowledge as well if I've got something wrong.

 

[Ghost SWO]

Gotcha. Yea, I'm not testing for another couple of months. Shooting for January boards, or later if I don't feel prepared. (want to get it on the first try if possible)

Makes sense. Good luck! If you're trying for SNA/NFO, attempting the ASTB second time could benefit the PFAR and FOFAR scores quite a bit since you'd have more familiarity with it.

 

[jgoldman18]

Makes sense. Good luck! If you're trying for SNA/NFO, attempting the ASTB second time could benefit the PFAR and FOFAR scores quite a bit since you'd have more familiarity with it.

SNA hopeful right here. And thanks again for the insight!

 

[Genghis95]

I understand what you're saying. I think what I said was confusing because I didn't mean to say it that way if that's how it came across. Yes, a medical waiver has nothing to do with GPA and ASTB scores. I do know the MEPS Chief was in contact with my recruiter that day and I'm just saying it isn't the MEPS medical personnel that submit the waiver, it's the DoD personnel for your branch. So if your scores are sub-par they may not think it's even worth submitting the waiver request if they're not confident in the scores? I could be wrong, I'm just saying I would feel like I had a better shot at a waiver request and approval if the recruiter knew I was a great candidate and was fighting in my corner.

I was trying to reinforce the idea that their scores are very good and their recruiter knows that, so the recruiter may push hard for a waiver.

Can you explain what N3M and NAMI is and what the process is? I'm unfamiliar with those terms, some others may not know as well. Might correct my knowledge as well if I've got something wrong.

Same here. I have been approved two wavers: It stated Approved for Unrestricted Line.

Then a few lines it states. "Code N33 defers to the Naval Medical Operational Training Center Detachment, Naval Aerospace Medical Institute, (NAMI Code 53-HN) for suitability for service in aviation program."

Does this mean I have been approved for a basic waver and might receive approval as SNA from the board and then be turned down by NAMI after getting through this process? any info into the process would be great.

 

[BlueSideDown]

What's up guys my account finally got verified and I wanted to throw my scores in here(applying for SNA). I'm from San Diego and just graduated with a degree in Mechanical Engineering from Oregon State June 2020. I still have to go to MEPS, but have 20/20 in left and 20/30 in right eye with a little astigmatism. I also have a pterygium in my right eye that doesn't affect my vision, but looks whack. I'm nervous about getting DQ'd for my eye stuff, but don't feel like I have impaired vision.

OAR: 68
ASTB: 9/7/9
GPA: 3.43
Degree: Mechanical Engineering
Age: 23
Prior Service: N

Best of Luck. They have waivers for a reason!

 

[Ghost SWO]

Same here. I have been approved two wavers: It stated Approved for Unrestricted Line.

Then a few lines it states. "Code N33 defers to the Naval Medical Operational Training Center Detachment, Naval Aerospace Medical Institute, (NAMI Code 53-HN) for suitability for service in aviation program."

Does this mean I have been approved for a basic waver and might receive approval as SNA from the board and then be turned down by NAMI after getting through this process? any info into the process would be great.

Sorry this response is long...

That is interesting. It really sounds like NAMI is providing guidance and authority for N3M to give their stamp of approval. On the other hand, if the waiver deferred to NAMI and you did not receive one, that's NAMI saying no to N3M right? As a prior service guy, I know this happens a lot where an agency will rely on another to make it's decision.

I dig some digging. This is from cnrc.navy.mil...

"An applicant may be disqualified for medical reasons on the initial medical pre-screen which is conducted prior to the physical at MEPS. If MEPS disqualifies a candidate based on the medical pre-screen (2807-2), then MEPS will not allow the applicant to process further. NRC’s Medical Waivers department (N3M) may request the MEPS to conduct a physical if they feel the medical condition is likely to be something considered waiverable.

Once the final results of the MEPS physical and appropriate consultations are complete, the results are forwarded to N3M for adjudication. (A formal judgement on a disputed matter)

N3M requires the following forms: DD 2807-2, a medical pre-screen form; DD2807-1, a report of medical history; and DD 2808, a report of medical examination.

These documents, along with any additional medical information that pertains to the disqualifying conditions are used in waiver determination,”. “From there, N3M will make a recommendation to the current Commander, Navy Recruiting Command, on whether or not to approve or disapprove the waiver.”

So, it looks like if you have a waiver you're good because it's already been adjudicated and approved by the NRC Commander. The initial screening at MEPS is specifically for a SNA/NFO slot so I don't understand how it would need further action beyond N3M. It states, "The recruiter can contact N3M for additional information." which sounds like N3M is the final stop according to Navy Recruiting Command, not NAMI.

I dug a little more...

NAMI on the other hand, according to med.navy.mil speaks specifically to the waiver process of current aviation personnel (/sites/nmotc/nami/arwg/Documents/WaiverGuide/02_Waiver_Process.pdf). I think he was saying even if we receive a waiver now, get accepted into SNA or NFO, go to training etc, an additional waiver may not be granted for continuation in aviation which is true.

The fact that we have a waiver now though should guarantee upon selection that we will make it to OCS without issue. Beyond that, it's a new ball game. Active duty personnel, new waivers, new process. As to why the waiver defers to NAMI I do not know, are there multiple signatures? There may be signatures from N3M and NAMI? It sounds like N3M referred to NAMI guidance on an issue and then signed off on the waiver based on their information. I don't have my waiver to look at unfortunately.

At least that's what I gather from all of that. I've never heard anyone say, "I had a waiver but got turned down somewhere in the process because of it". I don't think that's how this works. You could be turned down after you're in the Navy for an additional waiver request but not beforehand, and certainly not for the existence of our current waiver. If that's the case what's the point of a waiver now?

I'm operating under the pretext that my waiver (along with those who do have waivers), will have no issue (barring additional medical circumstances) getting to their designated SNA or NFO slot. It looks like the NAMI concern is separate, and for individuals already in the aviation program.

I'm curious how this lines up with exNavyOffRec comments about NAMI giving an ok later on.

 

[jgoldman18]

This is totally random. But for those of you that have gone through MEPS: is better to wear tighter fighting underwear (i.e. briefs) or does it not matter?

 

[Ghost SWO]

This is totally random. But for those of you that have gone through MEPS: is better to wear tighter fighting underwear (i.e. briefs) or does it not matter?

Lol. Personally, I would say you want to wear underwear that allows a full range of motion and mobility and is stretchy. There isn't anything wrong with boxers, except they usually don't stretch and that can get uncomfortable pretty quick.

 

[TheCoon]

This is totally random. But for those of you that have gone through MEPS: is better to wear tighter fighting underwear (i.e. briefs) or does it not matter?

Lol. This sounds like a question I would think of. I went when COVID was still a real big issue, so were only 2 applicants during the “dress down” portion, me and another dude.

He had boxers, I had athletic-type boxer briefs that I always wear. In reality, it didn’t seem to make a difference. It was glorified stretching, not the Olympics.

Just no thongs, g strings, or whatever else you could be in to...

 

[BlueSideDown]

Sorry this response is long...

That is interesting. It really sounds like NAMI is providing guidance and authority for N3M to give their stamp of approval. On the other hand, if the waiver deferred to NAMI and you did not receive one, that's NAMI saying no to N3M right? As a prior service guy, I know this happens a lot where an agency will rely on another to make it's decision.

I dig some digging. This is from cnrc.navy.mil...

"An applicant may be disqualified for medical reasons on the initial medical pre-screen which is conducted prior to the physical at MEPS. If MEPS disqualifies a candidate based on the medical pre-screen (2807-2), then MEPS will not allow the applicant to process further. NRC’s Medical Waivers department (N3M) may request the MEPS to conduct a physical if they feel the medical condition is likely to be something considered waiverable.

Once the final results of the MEPS physical and appropriate consultations are complete, the results are forwarded to N3M for adjudication. (A formal judgement on a disputed matter)

N3M requires the following forms: DD 2807-2, a medical pre-screen form; DD2807-1, a report of medical history; and DD 2808, a report of medical examination.

These documents, along with any additional medical information that pertains to the disqualifying conditions are used in waiver determination,”. “From there, N3M will make a recommendation to the current Commander, Navy Recruiting Command, on whether or not to approve or disapprove the waiver.”

So, it looks like if you have a waiver you're good because it's already been adjudicated and approved by the NRC Commander. The initial screening at MEPS is specifically for a SNA/NFO slot so I don't understand how it would need further action beyond N3M. It states, "The recruiter can contact N3M for additional information." which sounds like N3M is the final stop according to Navy Recruiting Command, not NAMI.

I dug a little more...

NAMI on the other hand, according to med.navy.mil speaks specifically to the waiver process of current aviation personnel (/sites/nmotc/nami/arwg/Documents/WaiverGuide/02_Waiver_Process.pdf). I think he was saying even if we receive a waiver now, get accepted into SNA or NFO, go to training etc, an additional waiver may not be granted for continuation in aviation which is true.

The fact that we have a waiver now though should guarantee upon selection that we will make it to OCS without issue. Beyond that, it's a new ball game. Active duty personnel, new waivers, new process. As to why the waiver defers to NAMI I do not know, are there multiple signatures? There may be signatures from N3M and NAMI? It sounds like N3M referred to NAMI guidance on an issue and then signed off on the waiver based on their information. I don't have my waiver to look at unfortunately.

At least that's what I gather from all of that. I've never heard anyone say, "I had a waiver but got turned down somewhere in the process because of it". I don't think that's how this works. You could be turned down after you're in the Navy for an additional waiver request but not beforehand, and certainly not for the existence of our current waiver. If that's the case what's the point of a waiver now?

I'm operating under the pretext that my waiver (along with those who do have waivers), will have no issue (barring additional medical circumstances) getting to their designated SNA or NFO slot. It looks like the NAMI concern is separate, and for individuals already in the aviation program.

I'm curious how this lines up with exNavyOffRec comments about NAMI giving an ok later on.

It does happen that "qualified applicants", now officers, report to Pcola and get the NAMI WAMMY. Once your there, NAMI is in the business of qualifying officers for flight status and with that comes procedures and waivers that are not necessarily available to those on the outside "applicant/candidate status". Once your in your in. They are going to do everything within their power to "up" your status.... barring a sequester of course

 

[Genghis95]

Sorry this response is long...

That is interesting. It really sounds like NAMI is providing guidance and authority for N3M to give their stamp of approval. On the other hand, if the waiver deferred to NAMI and you did not receive one, that's NAMI saying no to N3M right? As a prior service guy, I know this happens a lot where an agency will rely on another to make it's decision.

I dig some digging. This is from cnrc.navy.mil...

"An applicant may be disqualified for medical reasons on the initial medical pre-screen which is conducted prior to the physical at MEPS. If MEPS disqualifies a candidate based on the medical pre-screen (2807-2), then MEPS will not allow the applicant to process further. NRC’s Medical Waivers department (N3M) may request the MEPS to conduct a physical if they feel the medical condition is likely to be something considered waiverable.

Once the final results of the MEPS physical and appropriate consultations are complete, the results are forwarded to N3M for adjudication. (A formal judgement on a disputed matter)

N3M requires the following forms: DD 2807-2, a medical pre-screen form; DD2807-1, a report of medical history; and DD 2808, a report of medical examination.

These documents, along with any additional medical information that pertains to the disqualifying conditions are used in waiver determination,”. “From there, N3M will make a recommendation to the current Commander, Navy Recruiting Command, on whether or not to approve or disapprove the waiver.”

So, it looks like if you have a waiver you're good because it's already been adjudicated and approved by the NRC Commander. The initial screening at MEPS is specifically for a SNA/NFO slot so I don't understand how it would need further action beyond N3M. It states, "The recruiter can contact N3M for additional information." which sounds like N3M is the final stop according to Navy Recruiting Command, not NAMI.

I dug a little more...

NAMI on the other hand, according to med.navy.mil speaks specifically to the waiver process of current aviation personnel (/sites/nmotc/nami/arwg/Documents/WaiverGuide/02_Waiver_Process.pdf). I think he was saying even if we receive a waiver now, get accepted into SNA or NFO, go to training etc, an additional waiver may not be granted for continuation in aviation which is true.

The fact that we have a waiver now though should guarantee upon selection that we will make it to OCS without issue. Beyond that, it's a new ball game. Active duty personnel, new waivers, new process. As to why the waiver defers to NAMI I do not know, are there multiple signatures? There may be signatures from N3M and NAMI? It sounds like N3M referred to NAMI guidance on an issue and then signed off on the waiver based on their information. I don't have my waiver to look at unfortunately.

At least that's what I gather from all of that. I've never heard anyone say, "I had a waiver but got turned down somewhere in the process because of it". I don't think that's how this works. You could be turned down after you're in the Navy for an additional waiver request but not beforehand, and certainly not for the existence of our current waiver. If that's the case what's the point of a waiver now?

I'm operating under the pretext that my waiver (along with those who do have waivers), will have no issue (barring additional medical circumstances) getting to their designated SNA or NFO slot. It looks like the NAMI concern is separate, and for individuals already in the aviation program.

I'm curious how this lines up with exNavyOffRec comments about NAMI giving an ok later on.

wow, above and beyond.

Thanks so much for your input, it is reassuring.

 

[Ghost SWO]

It does happen that "qualified applicants", now officers, report to Pcola and get the NAMI WAMMY. Once your there, NAMI is in the business of qualifying officers for flight status and with that comes procedures and waivers that are not necessarily available to those on the outside "applicant/candidate status". Once your in your in. They are going to do everything within their power to "up" your status.... barring a sequester of course

Really good insight, thanks! Now that you mention the NAMI WAMMY I have heard that before some time back. I suppose the issue then isn't so much the current waiver as it is the additional medical screening for pilots? That makes sense. So they are really unrelated in the end, my waiver would probably have nothing to do with whatever they could find.

Guess it's a good point to bring up; Visiting an AME (Aviation Medical Examiner) would offer some insight to the process just not to the same depth. If you can qualify for a Class 1 Medical, you're moving in the right direction. I like that the Army will send you to do a full military flight physical before they send in your application. That could clear up this whole mess of N3M and NAMI. I would imagine a high percentage of the people going through are fine. If you get hit by NAMI later, it's honestly for your safety but that wouldn't be fun.