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MEDALS?? We don't NEED no STEEEENKIN' badges !!! *split thread*

Harrier Dude

Living the dream
I really think that there is a level of misunderstanding on this thread, both in general, and specifically on my posts.

For whatever reason, the older members seem to think that I am criticizing awards from their generation. That couldn't be further from the truth.

In reality, I am defending them. I feel that the "medal factory" mentality that we've fallen into collectively has cheapened the system. So much so, in my personal experience, that I end up looking at the number of SSDRs a guy has (and his rank) before I give any credence to his personal awards.

For our older members: what you may not realize is that there is a new culture of awards now (in my opinion). I don't know how it worked in your day, but now there is an expectation that I don't think existed in your day. Maybe it did. I'd like to hear more about how is was way back when.

Today, people expect an end-of-tour award. They feel screwed if they didn't get one.

People sometimes write up their own awards. Sometimes BEFORE the action occurs. Sometimes they have their subordinates do it for them. People "campaign" for awards. I have personally witnessed this both in the Navy and the Marine Corps.

It is those types of people that my disdain is aimed at. I am not accusing anybody here, specifically or collectively, as being that type if person.

Hopefully this clears up the confusion.

If there are people here that believe that what I wrote above is a legitimate way to get awards, then that's fine with me. If you campaigned for or wrote your own awards, then nothing I say will make you feel any differently. Wear your medals with pride.

For the folks that earned medals in this, or any other conflict, I hope that you feel the way about your medals that I feel about mine. I earned some, I got some handed to me for what I perceive as doing my job, and I know the difference between the two. So do those whose opinion matters to me: my squadronmates, my family, and my friends. Nothing else matters.
 

wink

War Hoover NFO.
None
Super Moderator
Contributor
After trading PMs w/ HD & MV, I am publicly apologizing to HD for my posts #s 248, 250, & 251. I retract the statements I made in these posts & regret any consternation caused to HD & anyone else, by these posts. It's not an excuse, but I was vigorously defending an awards system which seemed pretty much fair, during my era. I was totally ignorant of the deterioration which has obviously occurred since my era...along with many other of our best traditions in this era of increasing PC'ness.

In my era, it was considered "poor form" to question fellow Service Personnel's ribbons/medals. But, in this era of posers & ID thieves, perhaps this too, is no longer valid?

I shall in the future, restrict my comments to subjects which I am more "up to date" on. I stand embarrased, but chastened...and am now up & ready for relaunch!
BzB
Young'uns, Wannabes, Hard Chargers, Studs, Coneheads, and Nuggets. This is a class act. This is how it is done. BusyBee, Harrier Dude, and others managed to make up for the miscommunication common to web forums and have come to an understanding. BusyBee's post is an example to several of our more course and strident members.
 

Flugelman

Well-Known Member
Contributor
Young'uns, Wannabes, Hard Chargers, Studs, Coneheads, and Nuggets. This is a class act. This is how it is done. BusyBee, Harrier Dude, and others managed to make up for the miscommunication common to web forums and have come to an understanding. BusyBee's post is an example to several of our more course and strident members.

Thanks for pointing that out, Wink.

It occurred to me during this discussion that back then a lot of the recognition of exceptional performance (at least on the enlisted side) was in the form of "Letters of Commendation" rather than a medal. Not something you can wear on your chest but you know that your efforts are recognized and appreciated.
 

CommodoreMid

Whateva! I do what I want!
None
Super Moderator
Contributor
They still give out LOCs as well and I know the E's get points on their advancement cycles for them. Not as many as a NAM or something, but it helps out nonetheless.
 

FlyingOnFumes

Nobel WAR Prize Aspirant
Out of curiosity, given what has been happening nowadays, could it be seen (in a weird or twisted way) as a mark of pride for a guy to go through his JO career with NO personal awards?
 

Gatordev

Well-Known Member
pilot
Site Admin
Contributor
The PUC Award...... and some of the Cost:

Out of curiosity, why did so many maintainers "die at sea?" Was it blown overboard? I am, no doubt, missing something.

Thanks for pointing that out, Wink.

It occurred to me during this discussion that back then a lot of the recognition of exceptional performance (at least on the enlisted side) was in the form of "Letters of Commendation" rather than a medal. Not something you can wear on your chest but you know that your efforts are recognized and appreciated.

For better or worse, we do this with some of our guys. It doesn't award any points, but at least they're recognized. Not everyone can be a porn star.

They still give out LOCs as well and I know the E's get points on their advancement cycles for them. Not as many as a NAM or something, but it helps out nonetheless.

Actually, FLOCs (Flag LOCs) give points. LOCs from the CO don't give any points.

Out of curiosity, given what has been happening nowadays, could it be seen (in a weird or twisted way) as a mark of pride for a guy to go through his JO career with NO personal awards?

Everyone would love to be viewed as the rebel. That's why Hans Solo was always cooler than Luke Skywalker. But from what I've seen, there's plenty of guys who didn't go above and beyond and get NAMs. But there's guys who worked their tails off who got the same award. If someone didn't get an EOT NAM, I'm sure they can tell a good story, but at the end of the day, I'm guessing there's something missing from that same story.
 

Catmando

Keep your knots up.
pilot
Super Moderator
Contributor
Out of curiosity, why did so many maintainers "die at sea?" Was it blown overboard? I am, no doubt, missing something.
....

Various and unrelated reasons. But one incident especially:

At night a VA-115 A-6 lost its right main on touchdown (but not a hard landing). The LG remaining stub caught a wire that careened the A-6 into to "pack" on the bow that had already just recovered. It knocked a couple of aircraft over the side. Worse, it killed 5, and injured another 23, most severely.

Quick action by the crash crew saved a conflagration. Helos and COD MedEvaced a lot to Da Nang, indeed saving some lives.
 

Gatordev

Well-Known Member
pilot
Site Admin
Contributor
Various and unrelated reasons. But one incident especially:

At night a VA-115 A-6 lost its right main on touchdown (but not a hard landing). The LG remaining stub caught a wire that careened the A-6 into to "pack" on the bow that had already just recovered. It knocked a couple of aircraft over the side. Worse, it killed 5, and injured another 23, most severely.

Quick action by the crash crew saved a conflagration. Helos and COD MedEvaced a lot to Da Nang, indeed saving some lives.

Wow. Thanks for the explanation. I guessed there was more to the story, but didn't guess that. A day in the life, I suppose.
 

AJB37

Well-Known Member
For better or worse, we do this with some of our guys. It doesn't award any points, but at least they're recognized. Not everyone can be a porn star.

So was that a Freudian slip? Or are porn stars the rock stars of my generation? : )
 

bert

Enjoying the real world
pilot
Contributor
Out of curiosity, given what has been happening nowadays, could it be seen (in a weird or twisted way) as a mark of pride for a guy to go through his JO career with NO personal awards?

No EOT award stands out in the tank like a week old dead hooker. More Rebel without a Clue than Rebel without a Cause.
 

twobecrazy

RTB...
Contributor
I believe you get one point for a FLOC and 2 for a NAM. My memory is cloudy but I believe that is the point system.

There is only one thing I remember ever being awarded to me in the Navy and that was my "crow." Actually I don't even remember "getting my crow" except the weird sensation on my arm after! ;)...
 

flaps

happy to be here
None
Contributor
seems to me

somebody with four or five rows of ribbons should have seen the elephant at least once.

pretty sure that's not the case at least half of the time.

also, (imho) us military medal awards in general seem to be a bit inflated by brit, canadian and aussie standards.

went to a few joint conferences. i felt more comfortable with just personal ribbons.

i had a friend who was usaf enlisted during vietnam.

he went to korea to fix radios. came back with 2 1/2 rows of ribbons.
 

dephyler

Member
Contributor
I recognize I'm a little late to the party here, but I wanted to put in my 2 cents, whatever that's worth. I used to buy into the opinion that awards were being cheapened, but have since changed my tune. Two guys in my unit have changed it. I'm a reservist in a shore based unit. We don't get SSRs, no matter how long we're in, where we go, or what we do. We're never on a boat long enough to warrant one, assuming one is a non-prior. My unit also has guys from every other branch of service that have seen their share of shit and yet wear a Navy uniform without an SSR.

I first started my change of heart when an IS1 came home from Iraq with nothing on his chest. He was an investigator at IED sites, and part of a first responder team to collect evidence before contamination by locals. Definitely not a job he was trained for, but he did it. He got our CO's coin when he got home. The nail in the coffin was a JG that just came to us from the National Guard. He has been blown up his fair share, lost a lot of his buddies, and has a Bronze Star, without a V, to show for it. Such an award would've previously been seen by me as a "cookie." I've come to realize that just because SOME might get a cookie award is no reason to judge anyone else, or the system.

disclaimer: I recognize that HD isn't saying that a sailor is a dirt bag without an SSR. I have no dogs in the fight, just wanted to stand up for 2 of my guys.
 

MAKE VAPES

Uncle Pettibone
pilot
I don't understand your arguement at all. Your folks in your reserve unit don't wear a Sea Service Deployment Ribbon? Great, they aren't serving at sea!

The IS1 may have hosed something up, on the other hand, he may have been a hero... who knows. He got a paycheck (and a coin). If I walk away from this 392 dayer sane and with my ass in tact, I'll be greatful. The JG got a Bronze Star, for losing buddies????? For getting blown up???? I don't get it, where was Valor demonstrated? You left something valorous out... Now Im sure at some point he returned fire and all... but the logic of your arguement is hard to follow.

Are you saying you and your reserve compatriots deserve a sea service deployment ribbon, and that the IS1 should have gotten a Bronze star and that the JG should have gotten a V???
 
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