Tex_Hill
Airborne All the Way!!!
I think you probably hit the nail on the head.
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Salute this.
- Thread starter Raptor2216
- Start date
I think you probably hit the nail on the head.
Every situation can obviously be different. I look at each situation separately, there are honest mistakes that I can correct with little drama, in a nice way. If the sailor has an attitude or his uniform is really out of whack, to me, it seems as if he has a I don't give a shit attitude and I deal with it appropriately.
I've been following this discussion with quite a bit of interest simply because I often wonder what is an appropriate way of correcting a junior enlisted for a perceived lack of respect. Anyhow, one comment really caught me off guard, it almost seemed back wards to me:
It's almost as if the junior e is setting the example for the officer in this situation. I've always held the belief that it should be the other way around.
On a bit of a side note, when I was a junior e, I had an officer stop me once and commend me for having such a sharp looking uniform. While it wasn't a big deal at the time, it was a nice affirmation of why I put time in to my uniform. Shoot, I still remember it to this day so it definitely left an impression on me. Whenever I get the chance, I try to repay the favor to our young, impressionable junior e's.
It's almost as if the junior e is setting the example for the officer in this situation. I've always held the belief that it should be the other way around.
On a bit of a side note, when I was a junior e, I had an officer stop me once and commend me for having such a sharp looking uniform. While it wasn't a big deal at the time, it was a nice affirmation of why I put time in to my uniform. Shoot, I still remember it to this day so it definitely left an impression on me. Whenever I get the chance, I try to repay the favor to our young, impressionable junior e's.
....to add, to me, this is part of the game. I'm not a gung ho, Great Santini type but I believe in looking and playing the part, at least while in uniform. It's not that hard to have a uniform squared away, look confident and act like a quality sailor. I'll be honest though, I'm not big on LT's or even below saluting me. It probably wouldn't bother me if one didn't but I have yet to have a JO not salute me. It's the aviator/JO thing I guess. Some of us O-4's like to think we are still par of that JO crowd.......though we should know better 
Hey, works for me! I’ve been out since March 1970 still to this day I have my uniform of the day squared away. I’m lucky enough to work in an arena where I can dress casually for my job. I’m an engineer for a local heavy/highway construction company, I wear Levis, button down 100% cotton shirts, and my work boots. I attend all sorts of meetings where people are dressed way better than I’m dressed. However, my Levis heavily starched, as is my shirt, and my brown work boots are spit shined. I always get comments on my shoes, and my sharp appearance, always. For me, well the uniform of the day has got to be squared away. Looking sharp, civilian or military is important. Doesn’t matter what you wear it’s how you wear it! (Sorry for ending the sentence with a preposition it just seemed to fit.) Almost forgot... My cover's on... Hand salute to you all. This is a great board!
Steve
....to add, to me, this is part of the game. I'm not a gung ho, Great Santini type but I believe in looking and playing the part, at least while in uniform. It's not that hard to have a uniform squared away, look confident and act like a quality sailor. I'll be honest though, I'm not big on LT's or even below saluting me. It probably wouldn't bother me if one didn't but I have yet to have a JO not salute me. It's the aviator/JO thing I guess. Some of us O-4's like to think we are still par of that JO crowd.......though we should know better
There were certain O-4s that I made a point of saluting, even on the ship while in port, not because I respected them (which I did), but mostly just to inconvenience them and remind them they weren't part of JOPA. It was kind of an understood joke between one O-4 and I who was almost an honorary member of JOPA. He'd get a look on his face, realize it was the way of things, and grudgingly return the salute. I guess you had to be there to see the look.
See, that's the big difference. My job is to fly... if I fly with an O-3, O-4, and so on... we have our responsibilities divided. Unlike you in the army, it has nothing to do with rank, it has to do with your position in the cockpit.
There's times where I have to tell the pilot what to do. Not necessarily because he's dumb, behind the power curve, or anything else... but my responsibilities make me aware to a threat he wouldn't necessarily be...
What should I do then? "Hey, uhhh, sir... at your discretion... could you make a hard turn to the right to defeat that missile?"
The rank has to be a non-issue in the cockpit. You have to be willing to tell your pilot (or NFO... or wingman.. or even lead)... to do something, because there are times you WILL have more situational awareness than them. You're not in a status of working FOR the other guy, like in the Army Platoon Commander/Company Commander situation
MasterBates
Well-Known Member
TrunkMonkey55 is right on. I have called BS on the Skipper in the cockpit before. I have called for Power and Waveoff on approach to a FFG on a CAVU day with a man who will be wearing a star soon.
Rank comes off in the cockpit. It has to. This is not shoe-world at 15kt where you have minutes to make a plan and execute.
Rank comes off in the cockpit. It has to. This is not shoe-world at 15kt where you have minutes to make a plan and execute.
Okay, apparently I was misunderstood. It's not that I don't square myself away unless the troops are, just that I take it as a reminder that I, as an officer, have to be that good or (preferably) better. As a stud recently winged and removed from the TRACOM, it's a reminder that the game is now officially on.
floridaseabee
Member
I'll be honest though, I'm not big on LT's or even below saluting me. It probably wouldn't bother me if one didn't but I have yet to have a JO not salute me. It's the aviator/JO thing I guess. Some of us O-4's like to think we are still par of that JO crowd.......though we should know better
In the Seabee World, you don't usually salute JO's that you know, but there are plenty of your fellow JO's that eat lunches for missed salutes and you are ...corrected. Its different from the aviation world.
Nittany...I know exactly how you feel. Of course, we as officers have to be the example...but its much easier to really go the extra mile when you see your troops doing the same thing. Without trying to sound like a corporate buzzword know-nothing, its a synergy. We all get better.
invertedflyer
500 ft. from said obstacle
I can guarantee you that those Marines did that on purpose. I know its completely improper and disrespectful, I guess it kinda goes to inter-service pride etc. Outside of that some enlisted Marines hold a healthy disdain for Officers, Marine and otherwise. Very rarely would I ever see them not render a salute, however... Marines are pretty good about that... most of the time the Officer will say something cool to you if you render the appropriate greeting. One time, however, I was told by one of my NCOs (at the time) to stop saluting, reason being many Marine Officers get sick of returning salutes all of the time (this was primarily on the ramp) ... interesting.
I call BS on this one....if they really had "pride" in their service, they would be trying to do things *better* than their Navy counterparts (i.e. saluting when it is proper, and upholding standard courtesy). Sounds like a couple of $hitbags who the Marines would be better off without.
Join the dark side in the reserves... All of us O-4s/O-5s are on par with the JOs... Unless said O-4/5 is a tool, of course... Rank = More retirement money/ego booster.. But eventually everybody is either a civilian or dead or both.. So relax and have fun and remember it is just a JOB... Serve proud but don't confuse leadership with ego...
In the reserves leadership is more about doing things for a purpose than counseling (ie.. Because I told you so.. especially when anybody can quit at any time). Food For Thought!