Salute this.

[Harrier Dude]

.... if they have a neatly trimmed beard, they might have a no-shave chit. It's more common amongst black servicemembers.

Why does this affliction (chronic ingrown hairs) only seem to effect navy enlisted personnel? It seems like every other black sailor has a no shave chit and a neatly (trendy) trimmed beard. I've seen plenty of black navy officers and Marines (both officer and enlisted), and not once have I seen one with a no shave chit. I guess I could apply that to the air force and the army, but I think my point would hold.

 

[Brett327]

Why does this affliction (chronic ingrown hairs) only seem to effect navy enlisted personnel? It seems like every other black sailor has a no shave chit and a neatly (trendy) trimmed beard. I've seen plenty of black navy officers and Marines (both officer and enlisted), and not once have I seen one with a no shave chit. I guess I could apply that to the air force and the army, but I think my point would hold.

I have a feeling that the no shave chit thing gets abused a lot and the racial dimension of it causes people to be less likely to question someone about it. Unfortunate by-product of the times in which we live.

Brett

 

[Snacks]

Maybe not recognizing the "tactical" rank insignia on their shoulders? Depends on where it is... inside the flightline is a no cover zone so don't expect anything in there... Maybe their fear of IPs has subsided and they have recognized that O-3s are JOs like them...

Actually, clear of the flight line, covers on. Most of the time that I've seen it happen, the O-1 had a deer-in-the-headlights look and didn't know what to do.

 

[nittany03]

I once got saluted by some random Ensign at Meridian. Returned it mindlessly as I was engrossed in some thought or other, and then 3 steps later literally stopped in my tracks and went . . . WTF? The dude was long gone before I could ask him why he felt it necessary to salute JGs. Bizarre.

Edit: And touching late on the subject of gate guards, NASWI seems to have the most squared away bunch I have yet seen. Nice to get and return a proper salute instead of a poor facsimile thereof. Tends to make me take the extra time to square away my own act before I go on base, even in civvies, so as not to look like a dirtbag.

 

[Pags]

I once got saluted by some random Ensign at Meridian. Returned it mindlessly as I was engrossed in some thought or other, and then 3 steps later literally stopped in my tracks and went . . . WTF? The dude was long gone before I could ask him why he felt it necessary to salute JGs. Bizarre.

we had some ensign that we had brought off of the boat that was headed to SWOS hanging around our spaces the other day. we were BSing with him and he dropped a sir when he was talking to me (i'm an O3). all i could say was "dude...wings. none of that boat shit here." after i said that, my buddy, who had only kind of been paying attention looks at him in shock and says "holy shit, did you just call him sir?" guess the shoes had gotten to him.

 

[Tex_Hill]

I had a just winged AF 1st Lt try to give me a ration of #$%^ because I didn't salute him in the parking lot down here...I literally laughed in his face and carried on.

Technically speaking I may have been in the wrong but seriously...would anyone else???

I hear you with the O-3 thing though. I have seen the same. I think the key is familiarity...If you don't personally know the other JO then you probably ought to whip it out. I've also heard the rule of 2 bantered about. If you are two paygrades lower....out it comes.

Aren't you contradicting the point of this entire thread? As officers how can we expect enlisted guys to do something if we don't do it ourselves. Familiarity with the higher ranking officer should not matter. To borrow a quote from "Band of Brothers":

Captain Sobel, you salute the rank, not the man.

 

[KC130FE]

So...since we're on the topic...When going through a gate....what exactly do you expect? I am always covered when coming aboard and normally get a standard salute. Sometimes its quick, which I can understand because there is likely a line of cars out the gate, but it looks like a normal salute.

The other day, I was driving onboard and the E-5 checks my ID very carefully and then waves me through with this sorta chest high wave. It occured to me that it was likely improper but in that scenario, with cars behind, what would you guys do?

The "chest high" salute you are referring too is actually thier motion to wave you through the gate. Here at Pax, it is a mix of Navy and civilians and for the most part the sailors are pretty professional and render proper salutes. At least from what I have seen.

 

[scoober78]

Aren't you contradicting the point of this entire thread? As officers how can we expect enlisted guys to do something if we don't do it ourselves. Familiarity with the higher ranking officer should not matter. To borrow a quote from "Band of Brothers

":

This is worth discussing I think. The situation would have likely been different if I was standing with a group of ATC's or maintainers but...your question still stands. If its right in one situation, its likely right in another. The culture in the Navy is such that JO's generally do not salute one another. Is this right? Does it matter?

 

[scoober78]

The "chest high" salute you are referring too is actually thier motion to wave you through the gate.

I understand that...been through a few gates before. That said, this guy was not very professional and did not render an appropriate salute.

 

[Brett327]

Aren't you contradicting the point of this entire thread? As officers how can we expect enlisted guys to do something if we don't do it ourselves. Familiarity with the higher ranking officer should not matter. To borrow a quote from "Band of Brothers":

There's a difference between saluting among officers and between officers and enlisted. Some of it is service and even community based, but there are unwritten rules which govern such things. In the fleet (aviation community), O-3 and below do not salute eachother and do not salute O-4s they know - that's just how it's done and it doesn't affect or detract from officer/enlisted saluting.

Brett

 

[Tex_Hill]

The culture in the Navy is such that JO's generally do not salute one another. Is this right? Does it matter?

The JO culture doesn't exist to that extent in the Army. Why not, I don't know. I do know that familiarity breeds contempt and junior enlisted personnel are like sponges.

 

[BlkPny]

Sometimes a salute given to an officer only one or two ranks higher than you is not necessarily "rendering military honor", but simply a way of greeting. If you're friends, there were lots of times I saluted and greeted the other guy by his first name.

On the bright side, if you are in a combat zone, and there is a sniper lurking about, the sniper will shoot the other guy first. See? The system works.

 

[Tex_Hill]

There's a difference between saluting among officers and between officers and enlisted. Some of it is service and even community based, but there are unwritten rules which govern such things. In the fleet (aviation community), O-3 and below do not salute each other and do not salute O-4s they know - that's just how it's done and it doesn't affect or detract from officer/enlisted saluting.

Brett

But couldn't this be adding to the problem? The JO's know and are OK with this unwritten rule, but what kind of effects does it produce when the junior enlisted see it in action?

I agree that it's no excuse, but I also see how this may add to the problem.

 

[Tex_Hill]

Sometimes a salute given to an officer only one or two ranks higher than you is not necessarily "rendering military honor", but simply a way of greeting. If you're friends, there were lots of times I saluted and greeted the other guy by his first name.

Wow, it amazes me how different the Army & Navy are in traditions. As officers we were expected to always salute officers of higher rank except of course in combat zones or in certain training situations like airborne school.

 

[fc2spyguy]

The JO culture doesn't exist to that extent in the Army. Why not, I don't know. I do know that familiarity breeds contempt and junior enlisted personnel are like sponges.

As an enlisted person I knew the first names of all the officers over me. I heard them talking to each other on a first name basis. Does that mean I started to? Nope, believe it or not, we are able to recognize the difference in rank structure and that the proper etiquette differs in dealing with them. I dare say that most of the Es not saluting have more problems than the lack of salutes. But, that's just speculation.