Would You Do It Again

[Spekkio]

I would like to also add that these two are NOT the first ones I've heard who said they wouldn't. I've personally heard retired Officers and Chiefs alike who gaff at what the Navy has become in the last 20 years.

Yea, and I've read no less than a dozen clickbait headlines about how college isn't worth the investment, only to do a quick search on that author and lo-and-behold, he is some 40 something year old man with a college degree. Shocking.

Point being, sometimes people forget the opportunities afforded to them because of the path they chose in life. I'm sure that if you took away those retirees' early pensions, cheap healthcare plans, and professional connections made to government civilian agencies that support the DoD, that they would be singing a different tune about doing it all over again.

 

[Farva01]

Since the answer to OP's question seems to be a resounding yes, may I ask a follow up question?

If you had to do it again, would you want to stick to the "golden path" or not?

To quote the great poet Mitch Hedberg "I wish I could go back to little league now, I would kick some ass." I have enjoyed my time with its fair share of ups and downs. I think I have not played by the "rules" and I am doing just fine. Going off the path has made me a better all around aviator.

 

[Mos]

Honestly, there are days that I'd rather be anywhere but the Navy in general, and the MPRA Navy in particular. Who needs enemies in Asia when your own organization seems to be castrating itself? But there are also days that I feel supremely lucky to be doing this job, largely because I've been trusted by skippers and department heads to handle important matters.

 

[wink]

I'd like to put a finer point on what some people are saying when they say they wouldn't do it again. Some folks say that they wouldn't do it all over because its not the same Navy as when they joined. But that's not to say that back in the day when they made the decision that it wasn't a good decision for them then and they would fully acknowledge that now. Almost everyone simply gets to the point where it's enough for them. While it's been a good ride, there isn't enough value to justify staying in. Certainly at that point in their career they wouldn't feel like doing it again if the Navy at that point in time is the one they would want to join. A better question might be, do you feel joining the Navy was a mistake for you?

 

[pourts]

I'd like to put a finer point on what some people are saying when they say they wouldn't do it again. Some folks say that they wouldn't do it all over because its not the same Navy as when they joined. But that's not to say that back in the day when they made the decision that it wasn't a good decision for them then and they would fully acknowledge that now. Almost everyone simply gets to the point where it's enough for them. While it's been a good ride, there isn't enough value to justify staying in. Certainly at that point in their career they wouldn't feel like doing it again if the Navy at that point in time is the one they would want to join. A better question might be, do you feel joining the Navy was a mistake for you?

Also a good question. For me, same answer: yeah, I wish I could go back and do it differently. I would have done 4 years as a Marine in a different MOS, then moved on with my life. This job has many advantages and disadvantages, but its not perfect for everyone. Different strokes for different folks. When I was 22, all I could think about was the keys to the Hornet waiting for me at the end of the tunnel. I wasn't thinking "If I don't like this, my first chance to get out I will be 34." Optionality is important in life.

 

[Flash]

This is probably trivial in a general sense, but USAF Capt's spend their existence being "corrected" constantly by 2 stripers with way too much time on their hands (because they don't actually serve any useful purpose) who have been encouraged to do so by a pilot hating minority of prior E support officers. It is part of their lifestyle. Their JO's are treated like new ENS's, and their Maj's have the responsibility of a USN fleet JO. Their O-5's are in their mid 20's and have no idea what is going on. That is my impression of USAF culture.

The USAF structure is completely different than ours, most of the support functions that are 'organic' to Navy and Marine squadrons and other units reside in 'Operations Support Squadrons' in the USAF. This includes everything from travel to pay and other basic functions that if your squadron personnel can't take care of at least they are usually a pretty good go-between to the folks that do. The OSS's are exactly what they sound like, a separate squadron command that answer to the Wing (which would include the operational/aircraft 'Group' that is analogous to our Wings) or even a support Group and not the aircraft squadrons. As a result many of the USAF enlisted personnel can go through significant portions of their career cocooned in the support world and not seeing much outside that. That is how you end up with USAF SSgt's getting Bronze Stars for processing all the paperwork on time then they and their officers are shocked when they get ridiculed for it.

In the Navy almost everyone ends up on the boat if they stay in long enough and learn where they fit in the big picture, whether they want to or not, and that includes all ratings and designators with very few exceptions. That perspective helps out with many of the little things and lessens the hate and discontent that I often see with USAF folks to their support personnel. Ironic or not the Navy reserve and the reserve centers/NOSC's operate much the same way as the USAF and many of the same issues exist as a result.

 

[jtmedli]

Yea, and I've read no less than a dozen clickbait headlines about how college isn't worth the investment, only to do a quick search on that author and lo-and-behold, he is some 40 something year old man with a college degree. Shocking.

Point being, sometimes people forget the opportunities afforded to them because of the path they chose in life. I'm sure that if you took away those retirees' early pensions, cheap healthcare plans, and professional connections made to government civilian agencies that support the DoD, that they would be singing a different tune about doing it all over again.

Hearing it from someone's mouth directly to your ear when they're standing there saying to their son/daughter to get out and take the better paychecks on the civilian side because "the Navy isn't what it used to be" is a little different than "reading a dozen clickbait headlines." YMMV in this man's Navy but not everyone goes on to make their millions on government contracts after their 20 (Or hell, their 10 years. Or even better, their 4) years are up. Sometimes the best move is to get out of dodge to avoid a dead-end billet or MOS/NEC and go on to bigger and better things and sometimes there are people that don't realize that and waste valuable time.

 

[insanebikerboy]

Hell, I'll say it, I just love my job. All I ever wanted to do was be in the Navy and I'm doing it, so yes I would do it again. I could probably get out and make a lot more money, I have a large head with a lot of information stored in it, but where else do I get paid to lift weights while deployed, lead multiple aircraft in operational missions, hang out with some pretty cool dudes, and just have a balls ass good time?

Granted, I'm going on 8 straight years of sea duty flying orders, so I'm a little nuts, but I love it.

 

[Spekkio]

Hearing it from someone's mouth directly to your ear when they're standing there saying to their son/daughter to get out and take the better paychecks on the civilian side because "the Navy isn't what it used to be" is a little different than "reading a dozen clickbait headlines." YMMV in this man's Navy but not everyone goes on to make their millions on government contracts after their 20 (Or hell, their 10 years. Or even better, their 4) years are up. Sometimes the best move is to get out of dodge to avoid a dead-end billet or MOS/NEC and go on to bigger and better things and sometimes there are people that don't realize that and waste valuable time.

The point of my post wasn't about the medium of delivery, but that one should be skeptical when a person who has reaped the benefits of a career path suddenly believes that he achieved success in spite of those benefits rather than because of them. I especially would be skeptical of an old retiree telling me that the military ain't what it used to be when he hasn't been in active duty for several years. All he knows is what he reads in the papers.

Whether it's going to college on the GI bill after a 4-and-out or transitioning to a civilian support organization after retirement, the military offers many people a way to get a step ahead in life. Some people do a better job capitalizing on that than others.

 

[webmaster]

I would do it all again. I loved serving my country, on subs, navy diver and of course being very, very fortunate to get picked up in a commissioning program and then selected to fly. I debated a long time about getting out at a mid career point, for me I left with all my tickets, EPs and as a successful DH completing an OPSO tour. It was a hard decision, and even today landing my next "dream job" flying with a major airline, I miss the camaraderie, flight suits, and the joys of flying missions that I had in the Navy. All the other BS and admin overhead that has crept into the Navy (and military as a whole's) way of doing business? Nah, not so much.

 

[exNavyOffRec]

The point of my post wasn't about the medium of delivery, but that one should be skeptical when a person who has reaped the benefits of a career path suddenly believes that he achieved success in spite of those benefits rather than because of them. I especially would be skeptical of an old retiree telling me that the military ain't what it used to be when he hasn't been in active duty for several years. All he knows is what he reads in the papers.

Whether it's going to college on the GI bill after a 4-and-out or transitioning to a civilian support organization after retirement, the military offers many people a way to get a step ahead in life. Some people do a better job capitalizing on that than others.

The last several years I was in I would say "it ain't what it used to be", to me we swung the pendulum too far, yes change was needed as some things we did were a bit much, but just because it is work doesn't mean it can't be fun, being a nuke I worked with many disgruntled sailors but many of them told me "Chief, I don't like being in the Navy, but I like working for you"

and I would do it again, joining enlisted, even thinking about some of the bad times, now what I would do is pick an easier job, I was an average nuke, but I know I could have been a superstar in another rate!

 

[Randy Daytona]

"where else do I get paid to lift weights while deployed, lead multiple aircraft in operational missions, hang out with some pretty cool dudes, and just have a balls ass good time?"

What he said. In addition, active duty all over Europe: from north of the arctic circle in Norway to every port in the Med. MWR trips to Rome and Paris. Space-A to London, Frankfurt and Sydney. Good pay. GI Bill. Airplane and helicopter licenses.

Life was short so I got out but stayed reserves. Part time reserve flying that paid extremely well and allowed me to set my schedule. A very healthy retirement check waiting as soon as I hit age 60. More travel all over Europe and the Pacific. 22 straight years on flying orders. Above all, a career that meant more than just a job.

If I had not gone to work for Uncle Sam, would still be back on the farm in South Carolina where it was a big deal just to go next door to Georgia for a football game.

 

[Spekkio]

The last several years I was in I would say "it ain't what it used to be", to me we swung the pendulum too far, yes change was needed as some things we did were a bit much, but just because it is work doesn't mean it can't be fun, being a nuke I worked with many disgruntled sailors but many of them told me "Chief, I don't like being in the Navy, but I like working for you"

Out of curiosity, in what ways do you believe the pendulum has swung too far?

Also, do you think that your evolving position and increased responsibilities may have influenced your perception of organizational wide change where none may exist? I had an EDMC accused of 'changing' as he increased in rank explain how the information you have to process and make decisions on increases in scope as you go through the promotion chain... so perhaps some of that b.s. stuff was always there, but you weren't privvy to it until you made Chief?

 

[exNavyOffRec]

Out of curiosity, in what ways do you believe the pendulum has swung too far?

Also, do you think that your evolving position and increased responsibilities may have influenced your perception of organizational wide change where none may exist? I had an EDMC accused of 'changing' as he increased in rank explain how the information you have to process and make decisions on increases in scope as you go through the promotion chain... so perhaps some of that b.s. stuff was always there, but you weren't privvy to it until you made Chief?

sure a couple of quick examples, CPO initiation/transition now completion of phase whatever... yes there were some things that went too far a few CPO/SCPO/MCPO that weren't there to mentor or mold the person but there to exert power and such and that needed to go away, many of the activities were there to build character, we had guys that would put on a homemade shaped boat (looked like a battleship) and they 3 would have to work together to move the "ship around" and then they ships would throw water balloons at each other, it was a great time.

another is lighting off the engineroom on an aircraft carrier, when I came in the PPWO would give the order to the PPWS who would tell the CMO, who would give the order to the watchstander to light off the equipment, when I left the PPWO would give the order to the PPWS, who would then supervise the CMO giving the order to the watchstander and then unless something else had to be done the PPWS and CMO had to watch the equipment being lit off, I had more freedom as an E-5 CMO with 4 years in than a 20 year CPO PPWS, and what is pretty amazing is we had less issues back then compared to now.

 

[Swanee]

another is lighting off the engineroom on an aircraft carrier, when I came in the PPWO would give the order to the PPWS who would tell the CMO, who would give the order to the watchstander to light off the equipment, when I left the PPWO would give the order to the PPWS, who would then supervise the CMO giving the order to the watchstander and then unless something else had to be done the PPWS and CMO had to watch the equipment being lit off, I had more freedom as an E-5 CMO with 4 years in than a 20 year CPO PPWS, and what is pretty amazing is we had less issues back then compared to now.

I think a lot of us can see this. Being a Capt (or Navy LT) today perhaps has a lot less authority than it did 30 years ago. There is a lot more oversight today than there was 30 years ago.

Hell,we've had General's peeking around our COC because he wanted to know what was going on and direct the action. "Uh, Sir, isn't that what you pay us Company Grades to do?" Apparently not anymore. So much for special trust and confidence.