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Women issues
- Thread starter soccermaniac723
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Yes, if you have kids that is exactly what I am saying.
Yes, have your husband support you and your kids.
Yes, if you want a career, then don't have kids. What the heck is so hard to understand about it?
Kids are the priority, not your career so if you want the career more, don't have the kids.
Yes, that is exactly correct that fathers are not as committed. Mothers are wired to be better and more capale caregivers than men.
I am guessing that we won't hear much more from our do-it-all career women who is too busy trying to hear what she wants to. I hope I am wrong and will admit it when she returns.
R/
Steve
No, it means if you are looking for a convenient time to have a kid in naval aviation (or any other career for that matter) you won't find it. Some times are less bad than others, but from the tone of your posts it sounded very much like you want to have a child on your time frame without your career suffering, which will not happen, ever. Your idea is to have it before flight school. Everyone pretty much seems to think this is a horrible idea. The Navy deserves/demands your full attention during training. So when kinder folks than me suggest that you wait until your shore tour (with the caution that it will still hinder your career advancement) you find that not to fit in with the "I want to have kids while I am still young" mindset. All anyone has tried to do (aside from the more senior guys having their diversity/kinder gentler navy discussions) is caution you from having a very young child while trying to do flight school and let you know that when you choose to have a child, at whatever point that may be, you are also going to be choosing to limit your career progression. You don't think that's fair? So what? It doesn't change the way it is. If you ask a question with a predetermined idea as to the answer you want to get then what is the point of asking the question? I am not saying that women shouldn't work, or that they shouldn't have kids if they do work, but I am saying that if you are intent on having a kid now, that choice will seriously affect your ability to be a naval aviator. You can't have it both ways, and if your response to me pointing this out is to allege that I am sexist and imply that I am advocating that we should keep women barefoot, pregnant, and in the kitchen, then so be it, but you are missing the point by a mile.
Talk about a hypocrite. Dr. Laura is horrible, and her kid is a fvcking idiot (not to mention extremely irresponsible, immature and a trouble maker). How do I know says you? I went to school with him. Her parenting skills leave much to be desired. Your point was valid, your example was not. I fully agree with your post though. Just didn't want to miss a Dr. Laura bashing opportunity.
Last time I checked, paratroopers wear wings; you don't yet. He probably drank in college and bragged about it on a webforum: troublemaker.
Secondly, I wasn't comparing her to Dr. Laura just pointing out that she apparently didn't subscribe to the values that are espoused on her show.
R/
Steve
Maybe physiologically equipped?
devil_dog_wife
Proud wife and mama!
.....never mind.....
Cate
Pretty much invincible
Okay, that's just a little bit of bullshit. While there's been evidence to indicate that kids do better with at least one parent readily available full-time, nothing has shown that that parent has to be the mother. I know plenty of fathers who have been better primary caregivers than a lot of mothers I've known, and I think you're doing a real disservice to men by perpetuating this "No care about babies! Breadwinner! Manly man! Hapless oaf akin to Ray from 'Everybody Loves Raymond'!" stereotype.
And women aren't "wired to be better and more capable caregivers." Women are physically equipped to gestate and nourish babies and socially conditioned to be caregivers.
I think if you are able to pull off a successful career, military or otherwise, while being able to commit to the time it takes to raise a kid, more power to you. You should have that opportunity. Does that mean it's right for every woman? No. My mother worked and went to school when I was very little and I turned out just fine. I doubt I personally could pull that off, especially in the military, but apparently there are people that can. People on this board have even given examples of women who have done the whole mother/full military career thing. So why don't we just say if you can figure out how to time your career so you can both care for your kid while meeting your military obligations, then you should have every right to do it?
phrogpilot73
Well-Known Member
I think what he was trying to get at was simply that there are a number of bonds build between the mother and the child while breastfeeding. There are a number of studies that suggest this bond continues through the teenage years. Men can't breastfeed and therefore can't build those bonds. Can men be incredible parents, and the primary caregiver? Yes, but he still can't breastfeed and therefore won't have that bond.
It's amazing how the barbecue is shaping up. Here's my $0.02:
It's your decision. No one on this board should sway that decision. They may be able to give you advice based on career paths and whatnot, but they should not sway your decision to start a family. That is a decision that MUST be made between your and your SO. With that being said, my wife and I talked about it at length before we got married. She's not a pilot, but if/when we have kids it will be when she's on shore duty. She loves the Navy too much to be the primary caregiver, so guess what - I can't imagine a better job than being a full time daddy. Why on shore duty? Because it's the best time... Not a problem for her, since everything is a non-flying billet for her. But then when you start to factor in IA's, etc... there's never really a good time as long as you're on active duty. Try to do it on a non-flying shore tour, but ultimately you'll be in the military for 30 years tops, and you'll be a parent for life. I will reiterate - that decision must be made by you and your SO.
And for the record, men and women are now afforded the same amount of maternity leave. So, as long as it's not in a flying billet - there really should be no difference.
Do men get frustrated with women because they're given "special" treatment over men? Yes. But I can see the other side of the coin, since my wife is active duty. On occasion, everything she does is scrutinized because she's a woman. Yes, that's a broad generalization because there are a number of officers that treat her the same as men, but there are a few that don't. Surprisingly, the worst FitRep she ever got was a woman who grew up in the "old Navy" and graded her harder than her male counterparts because she had to prove to her that she was a worthy "woman" to continue.
Of course not - I was merely pointing out a direction the Navy is taking that some are unaware of.
Cate
Pretty much invincible
Got it. Disco.
Of course you have the right to have a kid, even if doing so will impact your ability to meet your military obligations. This is America, you can do what you want, but you also have to accept the consequences as well.
The problem is the OP wants to have a kid while leaving her career unaffected. Even if she isn't the primary caregiver pregnancy will still keep her out of the cockpit. So to avoid that people suggested during shore tour. But doing that would mean she would need to take a non flying shore tour, which will likely end up making her less competitive than someone else who did a flying shore tour, so her career would still be affected adversely. Besides, that would mean waiting to have a kid, which apparently just won't work. The point is not whether or not she has the right to do it. It's just that you have to choose.
You want the best billets that will give you the best fitreps and advance in the aviation community? Cool, choose not to have a kid. You want to have a kid right now? Cool, choose to make your kid a priority and don't expect to do well in flight school with a toddler. You want to do both reasonably well? Cool, wait until your shore tour to have a child and recognize that your ability to continue to advance in aviation is going to suffer to some degree. One choice isn't necessarily better than the other. The great thing about America is she gets to choose which one she wants to do for herself.
You have to choose. You can't have it both ways. Damn, life is so unfair.
Gotcha, good point.
Mrs Fester was 30 when she finished OCS, 32 when she got winged, and will be 36 next year when we're both done with sea duty and finally get to start with the reproducing.
Politics and gender equality issues aside, rules is rules. If you're preggers you can't deploy. If you can't deploy, the Navy stashes you ashore and stops your sea-duty counter until six weeks after the delivery, then you're back to your sea-duty squadron.
If you don't want to wait five years or so to have kids, find a different line of work. Sucks, and probably not "fair," but that's how it is.
Politics and gender equality issues aside, rules is rules. If you're preggers you can't deploy. If you can't deploy, the Navy stashes you ashore and stops your sea-duty counter until six weeks after the delivery, then you're back to your sea-duty squadron.
If you don't want to wait five years or so to have kids, find a different line of work. Sucks, and probably not "fair," but that's how it is.
TrickyFish
SNA
What about this is so unreasonable? I have every intention of dedicating myself fully to my career as a Naval aviator and completely give up the option of ever having children. But then again the thought of being pregnant or a parent makes me nauseous, so maybe that has something to do with it as well....
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