This is getting weird...
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Women issues
- Thread starter soccermaniac723
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When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro. Hunter S. Thompson
I agree that the commitment to the navy is one that cannot easily be divided. If you are going to have a kid, wait until it won't effect your 'family to be' and those that rely on you. However, I think that this is definately a situation of 'a woman in a man's field' I just think that you have to put your service first, as hard as that may seem. Come on guys...no bashing necessary.
Why are you jacking our thread?
MasterBates
Well-Known Member
Hendrix is unjacking a perfectly good jack!
The horror!
The horror!
Wow, Sorry this is so long, I wish I could have responded to this earlier but NMCI hasn't been up to loading AW for the past few days. To place my opinions in context: I am a woman and an Ensign in the Nuke field (a pretty close second to Aviation for a "Man's World") I feel that I chose this path with both eyes open and it is my responsibility to figure out how to fit in.
Totally agree, and not just for aviation. Taking a big chunk of time off any time you start a new career makes it a wee bit hard to believe you are serious about your job. Don't men get some paternity leave (a couple months?)
To all the guys out there who are "tired of seeing the kids get thrown to the side while mommy goes back to work" Calm it down. There are many fields where women can have successful careers they are devoted to and still raise good children who have plenty of "mommy time" (My sister is really good at this) The military is NOT one of those fields. Period.
Well Said
I can possibly see involuntary separation (might be better for the kid) but disciplinary action? Even when taken correctly the pill is only 98%. For the record, I like WheelsUp's idea of dead time, or the Navy's new program allowing women to leave for up to two years, then come back to where they left off. They loose two years of promotion time, but they can devote time to their kids and not have to start all over, very similar to some arrangements made in corporate world.
Totally agree, more women than men choose to get out and spend time with their fams, there is NOTHING wrong with that, I think it's great that women can excell in the business world then leave and be completely happy bringing up the next generation of CEOs. This is also the driving force behind that oft quoted statistic that women make less than men. A good bit of it is because of time out of the workforce to have/raise kids.
This kind of thinking makes me gag. This is the rationale behind affirmative action which is a personal insult to me. I work hard to get the job done and done well then, when I get promoted I get to wonder if it's because the boss noticed that I'm a hard worker or is it because they needed to fill another female billet. I don't get mad at the people who wonder if I earned my job, I get mad at the people who give sh!tbags promotions to avoid being labeled __-ist, but that's just my $0.02.
Love it, ALL of it, would quote the whole thing but my post is WAY too long as it is.
IMO, I disagree, at least w/respect to women. The Navy tries to recruit women but many aren't interested. I see a number of female JO's who hate the life, had no clue what the military was really about and either came in only wanting to do one tour or were ready to get out after their first tour. IMO to fill the void left by their mass exodus, recruiters may get a little less selective when it comes to signing females who aren't willing to put their job first. Not sure if it is the same for minorities, maybe that's just the view from my eyes and I'm totally off base?
Totally disagree, there are many fields where you can have a meaningful career and a kid, teacher's schedules are practically designed for those who want babies as well as many therapists and specialty nursing fields which require masters degrees or higher and pay VERY well. Military fields, especially specialties with long/hazardous training cycles such as Aviation, EOD, and Nukes are, as previously noted, are NOT such fields.
There are a lot of women who don't want kids. I'm perfectly happy being an awesome aunt to the most awesome little girl ever (and whatever other kids my sibs decide to sprout). I am pretty young and I do realize that sentiment might change, however NOT ANYTIME SOON!!!!
Getting back to the question that started this whole thread (if anyone is still reading), only you and your spouse can decide when to have kids. Asking for others opinions is good because now you realize that you will probably be looked down on for reproducing any time soon. Is that something you can live with? Would you be happier in another field/designator? Would you be OK having children, delaying your training and possibly pissing a lot of your coworkers off in exchange for getting the training and having children? These are tough questions that you owe it to yourself, your spouse, and your future children to ask.
Totally agree, and not just for aviation. Taking a big chunk of time off any time you start a new career makes it a wee bit hard to believe you are serious about your job. Don't men get some paternity leave (a couple months?)
To all the guys out there who are "tired of seeing the kids get thrown to the side while mommy goes back to work" Calm it down. There are many fields where women can have successful careers they are devoted to and still raise good children who have plenty of "mommy time" (My sister is really good at this) The military is NOT one of those fields. Period.
Well Said
I can possibly see involuntary separation (might be better for the kid) but disciplinary action? Even when taken correctly the pill is only 98%. For the record, I like WheelsUp's idea of dead time, or the Navy's new program allowing women to leave for up to two years, then come back to where they left off. They loose two years of promotion time, but they can devote time to their kids and not have to start all over, very similar to some arrangements made in corporate world.
Totally agree, more women than men choose to get out and spend time with their fams, there is NOTHING wrong with that, I think it's great that women can excell in the business world then leave and be completely happy bringing up the next generation of CEOs. This is also the driving force behind that oft quoted statistic that women make less than men. A good bit of it is because of time out of the workforce to have/raise kids.
This kind of thinking makes me gag. This is the rationale behind affirmative action which is a personal insult to me. I work hard to get the job done and done well then, when I get promoted I get to wonder if it's because the boss noticed that I'm a hard worker or is it because they needed to fill another female billet. I don't get mad at the people who wonder if I earned my job, I get mad at the people who give sh!tbags promotions to avoid being labeled __-ist, but that's just my $0.02.
Love it, ALL of it, would quote the whole thing but my post is WAY too long as it is.
IMO, I disagree, at least w/respect to women. The Navy tries to recruit women but many aren't interested. I see a number of female JO's who hate the life, had no clue what the military was really about and either came in only wanting to do one tour or were ready to get out after their first tour. IMO to fill the void left by their mass exodus, recruiters may get a little less selective when it comes to signing females who aren't willing to put their job first. Not sure if it is the same for minorities, maybe that's just the view from my eyes and I'm totally off base?
Totally disagree, there are many fields where you can have a meaningful career and a kid, teacher's schedules are practically designed for those who want babies as well as many therapists and specialty nursing fields which require masters degrees or higher and pay VERY well. Military fields, especially specialties with long/hazardous training cycles such as Aviation, EOD, and Nukes are, as previously noted, are NOT such fields.
Are you Brett327s sister?
This is probably the first woman I have ever seen admit she does not want kids in a public forum..
There are a lot of women who don't want kids. I'm perfectly happy being an awesome aunt to the most awesome little girl ever (and whatever other kids my sibs decide to sprout). I am pretty young and I do realize that sentiment might change, however NOT ANYTIME SOON!!!!
Getting back to the question that started this whole thread (if anyone is still reading), only you and your spouse can decide when to have kids. Asking for others opinions is good because now you realize that you will probably be looked down on for reproducing any time soon. Is that something you can live with? Would you be happier in another field/designator? Would you be OK having children, delaying your training and possibly pissing a lot of your coworkers off in exchange for getting the training and having children? These are tough questions that you owe it to yourself, your spouse, and your future children to ask.
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