Why no VOR on the boat?

[NavyLonghorn]

Is this a multi-pilot/crew thing? We don't get that far in the weeds in single seats. Boldface EPs and basic systems knowlege along with experience (takes time) and training works for us. I could give a damn about the exact tire pressure or how many blades the HPC6 has.

Being a HUGE airplane, their are actually things we can do. All of those nifty "I believe" thingamajigs that are deep inside most planes, are easily excesable via racks in the tube. We can fix **** as we fly. We carry an In Flight Technician. We can pull circuit breakers (which are all over the plane), we can open the hydraulic service center, we can find fires and put them out, we can secure certain electrical buses (individually), we have a complicated Prop system that requiers a decent knowledge, their are alot of good reasons to have alot more systems knowledge then when you are crammed into a little cockpit by yourself.

Granted im new still, but, defenitly stuff that is already obvious to me with even the limited experience I have. Im sure it will only be reinforced.

 

[Harrier Dude]

Being a HUGE airplane, their are actually things we can do. We can fix **** as we fly. We carry an In Flight Technician. We can pull circuit breakers (which are all over the plane), we can open the hydraulic service center, we can find fires and put them out, we can secure certain electrical buses (individually), we have a complicated Prop system that requiers a decent knowledge, their are alot of good reasons to have alot more systems knowledge then when you are crammed into a little cockpit by yourself.

Granted im new still, but, defenitly good reasons that are already obvious to me with even the limited experience I have. Im sure it will only be reinforced.

That makes sense. I've got seven (7) circuit breakers that I can actually pull. I've got pretty much 1 of everything else (engine, MC, generator, etc) so if it takes a dump, I do without.

That said, we have a question on our closed book exam that asks for the oil pressure that the OIL caution light comes on. I always thought it was stupid, since there is no gauge. I guess the lazy, stuipd ass Model manager should have taken that question out of the bank. I just never got around to it.

 

[MasterBates]

Our NATOPS is full of stupid crap like how many microns the oil filter is, what pressure the fuel press light comes on at (8-10psi) thought we have no gauges for it.

Also a lot of things that are 9 +/- 1 on one warining, and 8-10 on a caution. And if you cant remember which one, you get kicked in the jimmy on your NATOPS check.

 

[Harrier Dude]

Our NATOPS is full of stupid crap like how many microns the oil filter is, what pressure the fuel press light comes on at (8-10psi) thought we have no gauges for it.

Also a lot of things that are 9 +/- 1 on one warining, and 8-10 on a caution. And if you cant remember which one, you get kicked in the jimmy on your NATOPS check.

Those items are straight-up harassment package. Any jackass that adds them to an exam or asks them on a checkride should be kicked in the jimmy himself.

 

[e6bflyer]

Is this a multi-pilot/crew thing? We don't get that far in the weeds in single seats. Boldface EPs and basic systems knowlege along with experience (takes time) and training works for us. I could give a damn about the exact tire pressure or how many blades the HPC6 has.

In TACAMO, there are a few systems Nazis. In my experience with them, they are generally just showing someone less experienced than them just how much they know. The general rule in the E-6 world is to leave the nitty-gritty systems stuff to the guys doing the repairs or running maintenance on the jet (namely, the FE). I never expected anyone to know the cracking pressure of the fuel nozzles, but there are those who did. There isn't a gauge for it, right? Better to use those precious brain cells landing in a heavy crosswind or behind the tanker.
I do agree that a certain amount of systems knowledge is key. To blow that stuff off is to set yourself up for failure. A lot of it is just harrasment, though.

 

[Tom]

The small bull**** helps people feel better about themselves. When a person needs to show people that they know more stuff than the next guy I usually correlate it to a character problem.

 

[Harrier Dude]

Concur. One other note on this part of the threadjack.....

The meanest instructors (not challenging,....mean) were the guys who were kicked around their fleet squadrons for being losers and or tools. They're trying to make up for their insecurities (or whatever, I'm not Dr. Phil).

I guess it makes them feel better to sh!t all over some kid on his FAM-7.

 

[pdx]

Concur. One other note on this part of the threadjack.....

The meanest instructors (not challenging,....mean) were the guys who were kicked around their fleet squadrons for being losers and or tools. They're trying to make up for their insecurities (or whatever, I'm not Dr. Phil).

I guess it makes them feel better to sh!t all over some kid on his FAM-7.

Every school I have been to so far (OCS, API, Pri, Adv) makes me believe this! I guess you can teach knowledge, and you can teach somebody how to fly, but you can't teach them not to be a tool.

 

[Pags]

Every school I have been to so far (OCS, API, Pri, Adv) makes me believe this! I guess you can teach knowledge, and you can teach somebody how to fly, but you can't teach them not to be a tool.

some people just don't want to learn. Or they think they're "training" you when they make you know how many microns the oil filter is. Either that or those people don't have enough sh1t to worry about.

 

[Flash]

Being a HUGE airplane, their are actually things we can do. All of those nifty "I believe" thingamajigs that are deep inside most planes, are easily excesable via racks in the tube. We can fix **** as we fly. We carry an In Flight Technician. We can pull circuit breakers (which are all over the plane), we can open the hydraulic service center, we can find fires and put them out, we can secure certain electrical buses (individually), we have a complicated Prop system that requiers a decent knowledge, their are alot of good reasons to have alot more systems knowledge then when you are crammed into a little cockpit by yourself.

Granted im new still, but, defenitly stuff that is already obvious to me with even the limited experience I have. Im sure it will only be reinforced.

Sounds like someone is drinking from the kool aid already..... .....

But I digress. I agree there is a whole hell of a lot more that you can do in P-3's that you can't do in a tactical jet when it comes to fixing problems or handling emergencies. But there were numerous instances where I saw VP guys, or VQ guys trying to act like VP guys, ask some of the dumbest and most inane stuff. It became a game 'who knows the most minutiae' and had nothing to do with flying the plane or handling an emergency or problem. The guys who tried to do that in VQ were generally crushed by the rest of the pilots who didn't want to deal with it, including DH's and the front office, and yet we flew the same airframe and had no more problems than VP guys.

Just a little bit of the perspective I gained from being in two vastly different parts of Naval Aviation.

 

[zab1001]

Supposedly the Orion RAG is trying to move away from the BS numbers and limits questions. When the Webmaster goes through for the second time, maybe he'll have some insight.

(Concur that 75% of the deep systems stuff we have to know is directly applicable to breaking down in the middle of nowhere with minimal MX support)

 

[webmaster]

Supposedly the Orion RAG is trying to move away from the BS numbers and limits questions. When the Webmaster goes through for the second time, maybe he'll have some insight.

(Concur that 75% of the deep systems stuff we have to know is directly applicable to breaking down in the middle of nowhere with minimal MX support)

Time will tell, maybe I should bring a camera so when I get asked some of those questions during my first sim trainer they can catch the deer in the headlights for posterity...

As zab mentioned, the movement has been away from the weeds regurgitation (I can't say that has happened, only that they were trying to start that move when zab and I were still in the FRS). I have always been a big fan of knowing why when x breaks, it effects y and z. And if you close this circuit breaker in the EP, why you are doing it. Sometimes (and I use this lightly), asking the limits or weeds question can help to ascertain whether the upgrading pilot understand the system in question, or whether you need to break out the book or take that walk around the plane to discuss in greater detail.

Alright, my head hurts just thinking about all the studying I have to do in July. If Navy Vance asked me any indepth questions right now on P3s, I would be clueless

 

[NavyLonghorn]

The Instructors here are awsome. Ive seen very little in the weeds.

 

[Fly Navy]

As zab mentioned, the movement has been away from the weeds regurgitation (I can't say that has happened, only that they were trying to start that move when zab and I were still in the FRS). I have always been a big fan of knowing why when x breaks, it effects y and z. And if you close this circuit breaker in the EP, why you are doing it. Sometimes (and I use this lightly), asking the limits or weeds question can help to ascertain whether the upgrading pilot understand the system in question, or whether you need to break out the book or take that walk around the plane to discuss in greater detail.

That sounds like good EP/systems questioning. Asking how many microns the oil filter is is NOT good EP/systems questioning. It ... doesn't matter. I remember getting asked stupid questions in Primary... it stopped during Advanced and here, thank god.

 

[NavyLonghorn]

That sounds like good EP/systems questioning. Asking how many microns the oil filter is is NOT good EP/systems questioning. It ... doesn't matter. I remember getting asked stupid questions in Primary... it stopped during Advanced and here, thank god.

Ive been asked questions all the way through training that were silly. I have never however, had an instructor get upset if I didnt have the answer.