ACTUALLY .... If you read your history ... I think you'll find the Japanese did most of that ...
... the J's had nearly completed the strip at Lunga Point (which became the famous Henderson Field) when the 1st Marine Division landed.
-
Please take a moment and update your account profile. If you have an updated account profile with basic information on why you are on Air Warriors it will help other people respond to your posts. How do you update your profile you ask?
Go here:
Edit Account Details and Profile
Why does the Marine Corps have its own "Air Force"?
- Thread starter SoICanBeFree
- Start date
... the J's had nearly completed the strip at Lunga Point (which became the famous Henderson Field) when the 1st Marine Division landed.
Fletcher has long been the goat in this situation ... and unjustly so. If interested, you need to read "Black Shoe Carrier Admiral: Frank Jack Fletcher at Coral Sea, Midway, and Guadalcanal published by the U.S. Naval Institute.
Admiral Fletcher was made a scapegoat for other admirals' mistakes, most notably Richmond Kelly Turner and Ernest King (my opinion
) , and then followed a generation of misinformed "historians" and Marines, embittered by the perceived "abandonment" by the Admiral at Guadalcanal.This, by the way, is the same Admiral who went against all the odds at Coral Sea, Midway, and Eastern Solomons .... the same Admiral who's Air Groups killed 6 Japanese fleet carriers ... a record unmatched by any other U.S. admiral.
The Marine hatred and PR campaign against Admiral Fletcher stems from the failed relief of Wake --- it has nothing to do with Guadalcanal. And IF YOU STUDY the botched Wake relief effort ... once again, you will see that Admiral Fletcher --- a black shoe --- was the convenient fall-guy ....
Fletcher has long been the goat in this situation ... and unjustly so. If interested, you need to read "Black Shoe Carrier Admiral: Frank Jack Fletcher at Coral Sea, Midway, and Guadalcanal published by the U.S. Naval Institute.
Admiral Fletcher was made a scapegoat for other admirals' mistakes, most notably Richmond Kelly Turner and Ernest King (my opinion
This, by the way, is the same Admiral who went against all the odds at Coral Sea, Midway, and Eastern Solomons .... the same Admiral who's Air Groups killed 6 Japanese fleet carriers ... a record unmatched by any other U.S. admiral.
The Marine hatred and PR campaign against Admiral Fletcher stems from the failed relief of Wake --- it has nothing to do with Guadalcanal. And IF YOU STUDY the botched Wake relief effort ... once again, you will see that Admiral Fletcher --- a black shoe --- was the convenient fall-guy ....
I didn't want to get too much into the why Fletcher did it or whether he was right or not but I largely agree with you, I think the rest of his battle record speaks for itself. I am more a fan of Spruance, mainly because of Midway, but Fletcher was no slouch when it came to fighting.
On the whole, I think the 'Marines left on the beach with nothing' is more political than reality, it fits into their mystique better. This is in the same era when they were still fighting for their survival in the halls of Congress in the immediate post-war period and under the glare of a hostile President.
Fletcher did what he had to do, with the only US carriers left in the Pacific discretion was the better part of valor in this case, as evidenced by the battle later that night. Losing four cruisers is bad enough, losing the remaining US carriers would have been catastrophic.
I always figured Dad was blowing smoke about the Canal and the Chosin. I make it a habit to never believe those that were there.
An interesting book, " The Old Breed(A History of The First Marine Division In World War II). Infantry Journal Press:1949 states " When word got around Guadalcanal in the second week of August that the Navy had taken off and left the Marines, the feeling of expendability became a factor in the battle.....
there was an awful lot of talk about Bataan."
This book has long been out of print but tells the story of those that were there by those that were there.
An interesting book, " The Old Breed(A History of The First Marine Division In World War II). Infantry Journal Press:1949 states " When word got around Guadalcanal in the second week of August that the Navy had taken off and left the Marines, the feeling of expendability became a factor in the battle.....
there was an awful lot of talk about Bataan."
This book has long been out of print but tells the story of those that were there by those that were there.
Well, for better or for worse ... I have no dog in this hunt. I'm just an historian. I try to keep my emotions out of it and dig at the facts.
Unless I was there ....
I guess my point was that Fletcher has been unfairly painted as the "bad guy" for the Navy's early withdrawl from Guadalcanal.
He also took the hit for the failed Wake relief. Unjustly .... for example:
Sooooooo .... what was the plan for Wake??
Why was it a widely dispersed attack plan???
Who was effectively in overall command in the aftermath of the Pearl Harbor debacle??
How many oilers were available??
How fast could Neches steam???
Where was the Saratoga???
What was the best forward speed that could be made by the relief force and it's covering force???
What was the "real" fuel burn of the destroyers and cruisers vice what the pre-war "planning" had indicated???
Where was the Hiryu and Soryu ???
After the Marines of VMF-221 had flown off to Wake ... how many F4F's did the Saratoga have remaining to defend the Task Group???
All these kinds of questions need to be examined by a serious person.Similar critical analysis --- different place and circumstance, obviously --- needs to be looked at by those studying Guadalcanal.
When asked in early 1970 whether or not the arrival of the relief force would have made any difference in Wake's ultimate defeat ... retired BGen Devereux stated: "I rather doubt that that particular task force, with its size and composition, could have been very effective ... I think it was wise ... to pull back."
That's from someone who was "there". And that's keeping the "emotion" out of it ...
He also took the hit for the failed Wake relief. Unjustly .... for example:
Sooooooo .... what was the plan for Wake??
Why was it a widely dispersed attack plan???
Who was effectively in overall command in the aftermath of the Pearl Harbor debacle??
How many oilers were available??
How fast could Neches steam???
Where was the Saratoga???
What was the best forward speed that could be made by the relief force and it's covering force???
What was the "real" fuel burn of the destroyers and cruisers vice what the pre-war "planning" had indicated???
Where was the Hiryu and Soryu ???
After the Marines of VMF-221 had flown off to Wake ... how many F4F's did the Saratoga have remaining to defend the Task Group???
All these kinds of questions need to be examined by a serious person.Similar critical analysis --- different place and circumstance, obviously --- needs to be looked at by those studying Guadalcanal.
When asked in early 1970 whether or not the arrival of the relief force would have made any difference in Wake's ultimate defeat ... retired BGen Devereux stated: "I rather doubt that that particular task force, with its size and composition, could have been very effective ... I think it was wise ... to pull back."
That's from someone who was "there". And that's keeping the "emotion" out of it ...
And my belief is that the First Marine Divisions plight on Guadalcanal isn't revisionist history constructed to meet the threat to Marine Corps survival presented in the late 1940s.
While I wasn't on Guadalcanal, I'm not going to accept the statement that the Marine Corps history I've read and first hand accounts I've been witness to are more mystique than reality.
While I wasn't on Guadalcanal, I'm not going to accept the statement that the Marine Corps history I've read and first hand accounts I've been witness to are more mystique than reality.
And we have no beef ... no revisionist history .... Fletcher got the shaft, ... undeservedly so, to protect others' careers ... were talkin' about two different things.
I love that even your generation was in on the act.
I should have known you meant Flash. He has certain "tendencies," one of which is to be irritating.Brett
Who me?
Sorry to come across so crass, just wanted to defend my service that has been so maligned since then. I think they did what they had to do, as did the Marines. Sorry for any offense taken.