I think you guys are looking at this whole thread wrong.
The real Question is "Why does the Air Force Exist?"
Its never been a question of "Why does the Air Force Exist," Its always been a question of, "Why are Air Force guys tools."
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Why does the Marine Corps have its own "Air Force"?
- Thread starter SoICanBeFree
- Start date
Its never been a question of "Why does the Air Force Exist," Its always been a question of, "Why are Air Force guys tools."
jride200
Member
My understanding is that during WWII, at the battles of Guadalcanal and Tulagi, Marines felt abandoned by naval air support (3 carriers-which initially provided air support during the marine landings-were ordered south by a naval commander for refueling). Ever since, the Corps has insisted upon control of their own powerful air force. Or so I remember from history courses . . .
I'm not so sure about that. I just finished reading Semper Fi in the Sky. I don't believe that was ever brought up. In fact, I think that a lot of times Marine, Navy, and even Army Air Corps planes flew on missions together. Pretty interesting book for anyone interested in Marine aviation.
Birdman
Registered User
There were marine aviators at guadalcanal
The first Marine Naval Aviator was winged May 22, 1912...and Marine aviators have flown in every conflict since where Marines were on the ground.
That's a matter of opinion. I'm not suggesting the scenario you portray is made up, but that it serves as the reason for Marine "ownership" of their air assets is made up. Any real or perceived dissatisfaction with air cover for Marines during a single engagement does not a doctrine create. It's nothing more than a historical novelty.
Brett
My understanding has always been because of the the MAGTF concept - an Air Ground Task Force controlled by one commander - Really exists mainly for the MEU - not so much what we are doing now in OIF. Can't have a MAGTF without the A (air).
If I am reading your post correctly you are saying that the current OIF setup is somehow not a MAGTF? Not true, Marine Air is operating overhead of ground assigned to Marine ground units as it usually is, situation normal, all under an overall MEF commander.
Eddie-yes initially the justification for Marine attack air is to make up for an intention lightness in the artillery dept.
True statement - but does the MEF commander own ALL Marine air? I think the excess sorties are given up aren't they? If I recall my MAWTS classes correctly i would say that OIF is more like Theatre Operations.
At any rate what I was getting at is that the MEU is the purest example of a MAGTF when it is operating alone and unafraid with no other US military structure to plug into (e.g. a short fused NEO)
R/
The naval support for the invasion of Guadacanal was withdrawn early because Admiral Fletcher, in charge of the carrier task force, thought his aircraft losses were too great from a Japanese air attack and his fuel was too low. When he withdrew the commander of the task force of supply ships tried to unload as many supplies as possible, then withdraw after the carriers(that was the real annoyance to the Marines, not the lack of air cover). The reality of the threat was borne out in the night after Fletcher withdrew when a combined Australian and US task force protecting the supply ships lost 4 cruisers in a battle with the Japanese inthe Battle of Savo Island, one of the worst naval losses in US history. http://www.microworks.net/PACIFIC/battles/savo_island.htm
Whether or not Admiral Fletcher was right to withdraw has been much debated since it happened and will probably go on for a much longer time. Over the next few months though, the US Navy had many losses trying to protect the Marines during the many naval battles that occured over Ironbottom Sound, so named because of the number of ships that were sunk in the sound. The only air protection provided the Marines for a time was by USAAF and Marine aircraft from Henderson Field, which was completed by the Marines after they took it in the initial invasion.
With all that said, to say that the Marines air doctrine came from that one instance is ridiculous, like Brett said. It also ignores the early development of air support during the Marines involvement in several Central American conflicts. This was vital to their overall strategy in trying to defeat the guerillas. As a matter of fact, the Luftwaffe used Marine Corps doctrine from the at era to develop their own, notably dive bombing.
So you are being pretty selective and simplistic with your history if you think that the Marines have their own air arm because of a single battle......