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What NRC considers competitive

senatesnob

Nothing worse than the House of Represenatives
Hello,

Just realized I posted my previous post in the wrong sub.

Please let me hear your honest thoughts on my chances of getting picked for Intel OCS. I am also interested in Supply and would put it as my 2nd choice.
Stats:
  • Will be 26 year old when I apply
  • 3.94 GPA.
  • Double major in Finance and Economics from a regular state's flagship school.
  • OAR : 56
  • Pretty involved in student government. That's about it for my EC in college.
  • Was also captain of my school performing arts team. Won several state-wide competitions.
Background:
  • 3 years of work experience in "high-finance" in NY.
  • My current work involves a lot of PowerPoint/Excel work + pitches. I would say I am very skilled in preparing slide decks/excel sheets. I am not sure how much it could help my chances :)
  • Immigrant from Vietnam. Moved to the US since high school.
I plan to submit my package once this Covid situation gets better, since I want to be around for my family in the meantime.
What do you think my odds of getting picked for Intel are, let's say out of 10? My biggest concern is my immigrant background and if that would make it difficult for me to get a security clearance, since I spent half of my life in birth country before moving to the states. What are your thoughts on that?
What do you think I can do to improve my application strength?
Thank you!
If you have extensive family ties, foreign contacts in Vietnam, PRC, etc. or any immediate relatives with foreign citizenship, prepare for a very long clearance process. I’d talk to a recruiter and get that SF-86 submitted ASAP. Just do not lie in any respect; they will find out. Clearances often take 12-18 mo+ without a whole lot extra going on. If you have any criminal history or drug use it’ll only make it more difficult.

Talk to a recruiter and ask them to see if they can find someone in the IC to talk to. I’d probably go supply and then lat transfer or apply SWO-INTEL.

Either way, just apply. The IC will value your experience and (I’m assuming) language skills. If you really want Intel, who cares what it is out of 10, just keep applying until they call and tell you to stop. Lots of Intel folks had to apply multiple times.

As for the slide deck, it is important but even more so is briefing. Gotta be able to pull out the single most important face on the slide and then place it within your story.
 

exNavyOffRec

Well-Known Member
If you have extensive family ties, foreign contacts in Vietnam, PRC, etc. or any immediate relatives with foreign citizenship, prepare for a very long clearance process. I’d talk to a recruiter and get that SF-86 submitted ASAP. Just do not lie in any respect; they will find out. Clearances often take 12-18 mo+ without a whole lot extra going on. If you have any criminal history or drug use it’ll only make it more difficult.

Talk to a recruiter and ask them to see if they can find someone in the IC to talk to. I’d probably go supply and then lat transfer or apply SWO-INTEL.

Either way, just apply. The IC will value your experience and (I’m assuming) language skills. If you really want Intel, who cares what it is out of 10, just keep applying until they call and tell you to stop. Lots of Intel folks had to apply multiple times.

As for the slide deck, it is important but even more so is briefing. Gotta be able to pull out the single most important face on the slide and then place it within your story.
As a note a SF-86 cannot be submitted until the application is submitted, and then it is only reviewed to see if there are any show stoppers, the ball doesn't get rolling until after selection, and yes that has resulted in people getting hung up down the line.

They are now telling people "do not return" as they are tiring of seeing people apply over and over again, and the overall data shows the best chance of being selected is the first look (does not apply if you then apply for another designator).
 

AULANI

Well-Known Member
Hello,

Just realized I posted my previous post in the wrong sub.

Please let me hear your honest thoughts on my chances of getting picked for Intel OCS. I am also interested in Supply and would put it as my 2nd choice.
Stats:
  • Will be 26 year old when I apply
  • 3.94 GPA.
  • Double major in Finance and Economics from a regular state's flagship school.
  • OAR : 56
  • Pretty involved in student government. That's about it for my EC in college.
  • Was also captain of my school performing arts team. Won several state-wide competitions.
Background:
  • 3 years of work experience in "high-finance" in NY.
  • My current work involves a lot of PowerPoint/Excel work + pitches. I would say I am very skilled in preparing slide decks/excel sheets. I am not sure how much it could help my chances :)
  • Immigrant from Vietnam. Moved to the US since high school.
I plan to submit my package once this Covid situation gets better, since I want to be around for my family in the meantime.
What do you think my odds of getting picked for Intel are, let's say out of 10? My biggest concern is my immigrant background and if that would make it difficult for me to get a security clearance, since I spent half of my life in birth country before moving to the states. What are your thoughts on that?
What do you think I can do to improve my application strength?
Thank you!
For intel...

Good OAR and GPA.

You may run into a few security clearance snags giving your background. I'm half Filipino (born here) and everyone from my mom's side of the family are naturalized U.S. citizens, some even serving in the U.S. military and I still ran into a few issues.

As far as improving your application, a grad degree can't hurt. Good luck!
 

randomtask

New Member
Just found out that the newish age requirements for Navy Intel Officer means service is maybe still possible for me.
It is an understatement to say I am really excited. I will be contacting an OR on Monday.

Wanted to share some info about my background and hopefully get some honest feedback from folks around here who know a thing or two about a thing or two, as to whether I'm competitive enough without STEM. I had a really, really fortunate "starter" career that put me in touch with a lot of great training and educational opportunities as well as opportunities to interface with some amazing high-flyers.

Keeping things purposefully vague:
  • UG GPA: 3.93, BA Area Studies (in a "super critical" area)
  • Grad GPA: 3.93, MA in the same super critical area, Social Sciences & Cognitive Science, completing in the next few months
A few short years of prior federal service:
  • First as a military civilian, doing public affairs "and stuff"
  • Then as a Foreign Service Officer, assigned to the same critical area as my degrees; mainly doing interviews, security, and public affairs
  • Held TS/SCI
  • Received a letter of commendation during this service from a then-ASD who later became the USD for Intel.
I am rated at a 2 in the same critical language, and applying for intensive language training over next summer.
I also completed defense/military coursework at a military education installation at the graduate level, 3.96 GPA. It was an opportunity for civilian staff in my position but the time spent in classes wasn't counted towards work hours so nobody did it.... But the opportunity was amazing, so I jumped on it, hard. No degree out of it though, just the transcripts.

My aptitude for math is great but I have no serious education or training in it. When I took the ASVAB as a kid, they sequestered me ASAP for Nuke, I was a DEP-er but left when I found the civilian service gig. I'd be happy to dive in to math and science, but I also really love behavior analysis and have experience.

Physical fitness - working on it - mainly I am too skinny.

References:
One definitely from a retired SO/former DASD - separate from the ASD above. Worked together before and have always stayed in touch.
I haven't asked anyone else yet because I am a little skeptical that this still might be possible. The last two recruiters I talked to said nobody over 35, period, and slammed the door.
But, if it's really possible, there are quite a few other former colleagues mainly in Army & Navy, who I can ask for references from my time as a civil servant, but a lot are retired now - does that matter?
I am also lucky to be connected to someone above O-7 through my former federal service that I will consider reaching out to if/when appropriate.

So I guess I actually have two questions - am I dreaming or this seriously possible? BUPERS docs say someone must be commissioned soon enough to get 20 years of service by 55, which makes it 35. Other NAVINST docs says Intel is OK up to 42, as does the Navy website. I see people on here also talking about being over 35 and applying for Intel...

So then, if the above is not a complete fantasy, and yes I might be able to actually serve in this way...
Do I have enough of the right kinds of experience to be competitive without a STEM background?

Thank you very much for reading.
 

exNavyOffRec

Well-Known Member
Just found out that the newish age requirements for Navy Intel Officer means service is maybe still possible for me.
It is an understatement to say I am really excited. I will be contacting an OR on Monday.

Wanted to share some info about my background and hopefully get some honest feedback from folks around here who know a thing or two about a thing or two, as to whether I'm competitive enough without STEM. I had a really, really fortunate "starter" career that put me in touch with a lot of great training and educational opportunities as well as opportunities to interface with some amazing high-flyers.

Keeping things purposefully vague:
  • UG GPA: 3.93, BA Area Studies (in a "super critical" area)
  • Grad GPA: 3.93, MA in the same super critical area, Social Sciences & Cognitive Science, completing in the next few months
A few short years of prior federal service:
  • First as a military civilian, doing public affairs "and stuff"
  • Then as a Foreign Service Officer, assigned to the same critical area as my degrees; mainly doing interviews, security, and public affairs
  • Held TS/SCI
  • Received a letter of commendation during this service from a then-ASD who later became the USD for Intel.
I am rated at a 2 in the same critical language, and applying for intensive language training over next summer.
I also completed defense/military coursework at a military education installation at the graduate level, 3.96 GPA. It was an opportunity for civilian staff in my position but the time spent in classes wasn't counted towards work hours so nobody did it.... But the opportunity was amazing, so I jumped on it, hard. No degree out of it though, just the transcripts.

My aptitude for math is great but I have no serious education or training in it. When I took the ASVAB as a kid, they sequestered me ASAP for Nuke, I was a DEP-er but left when I found the civilian service gig. I'd be happy to dive in to math and science, but I also really love behavior analysis and have experience.

Physical fitness - working on it - mainly I am too skinny.

References:
One definitely from a retired SO/former DASD - separate from the ASD above. Worked together before and have always stayed in touch.
I haven't asked anyone else yet because I am a little skeptical that this still might be possible. The last two recruiters I talked to said nobody over 35, period, and slammed the door.
But, if it's really possible, there are quite a few other former colleagues mainly in Army & Navy, who I can ask for references from my time as a civil servant, but a lot are retired now - does that matter?
I am also lucky to be connected to someone above O-7 through my former federal service that I will consider reaching out to if/when appropriate.

So I guess I actually have two questions - am I dreaming or this seriously possible? BUPERS docs say someone must be commissioned soon enough to get 20 years of service by 55, which makes it 35. Other NAVINST docs says Intel is OK up to 42, as does the Navy website. I see people on here also talking about being over 35 and applying for Intel...

So then, if the above is not a complete fantasy, and yes I might be able to actually serve in this way...
Do I have enough of the right kinds of experience to be competitive without a STEM background?

Thank you very much for reading.
Per PA 108 as long as you can commission by age 42 you can apply.

The plus to your application if very high UG and Grad GPA, they look at tech or non-tech, they don't get into "critical BA or critical BS", your GPA will make them take notice.

The recruiters probably didn't look at the PA for the age requirements.

Language skills don't matter, Intel officers don't translate, we have enlisted for that.
 

wink

VS NFO. Blue and Gold Officer
None
Super Moderator
Contributor
Language skills don't matter, Intel officers don't translate, we have enlisted for that.
Makes a good tie breaker though.

When I was on the NAVEUR staff the guys that spoke one of the languages in the AOR could get good deal liaison assignments. Of course that was in the early 90s when there was a lot of "liaison" assignments to conferences, foreign military training, etc as all of NATO and the former Soviet Block was jockeying for position.
 

exNavyOffRec

Well-Known Member
Makes a good tie breaker though.

When I was on the NAVEUR staff the guys that spoke one of the languages in the AOR could get good deal liaison assignments. Of course that was in the early 90s when there was a lot of "liaison" assignments to conferences, foreign military training, etc as all of NATO and the former Soviet Block was jockeying for position.
all the Intel that ended up being picked up I know of and Intel officers I know didn't have much for language skills, I could see if a person wanted to go to be an FAO after that having those skills would help for the future, mine all had great GPA's and degrees.

I could see if they were stuck on 2 people diving into the application more, but then I figure they would be looking at statements and LOR's. I guess if they get to the end they could use as a tie breaker, but using that as a tie breaker on something that probably wouldn't be used would be as good as a flip of the coin. I think a tie breaker for Intel should be how fast can you create a power-point presentation on why you should be an Intel officer LOL
 

kooljack

New Member
Hey folks. Hope all of you are doing well in this COVID crazy situation.

I've been doing heavy research over the past 6-Months into commissioning as a naval officer. I just wanted to leave my information here to see what you guys think of my chances in shooting for INTELLIGENCE (1830) / CRYPTOLOGIC WARFARE (1810) / INFORMATION PROFESSIONAL (1820) communities:

Male // 40 years // US Citizen // Connecticut // Race: Asian: India
Education:
B.Engg. (Instrumentation & Control) - Specialization in Robotics & Automation (One for the best Engineering Colleges in Pune (Boston) of India).
B.S in Information Technology - Specialization in E-Business. (Private College in Geneva, Switzerland)
M.S in Information Technology - Specialization in Management Information Systems & ERP (Private College in Geneva, Switzerland)
Double M.S. in Finance - Specialization in Corporate Finance & Portfolio Management (Ivy league type Business School in Geneva, Switzerland)
Average GPAs of all above degrees between 3.9 to 4.00

Work Experience:
AML (Anti Money Laundering) Compliance Manager & IT Project Manager - 3 years for a Financial Institution with 8000+ employees. USA
Founder of Technology Startup valued @ $6 Million - 5 years (72 employees) - INDIA , USA.
Senior Private Banker - 3 years (One of the oldest private banks since 1785 for Ultra High Net Worth Clients) - Switzerland.
Junior Financial Analyst - 2 years (Financial Advisory Firm) - Switzerland.
IB and Forex Money Manager - 6 years ( Top FX Market Maker in Switzerland) - Private Business with 22 clients.
Some other part-time jobs during college in Switzerland: Restaurants, International Airport employee, IT Consulting Companies.
Languages: English, French, Hindi, Gujarati, Marathi, German (Read, Write & Speak), and some Urdu (Only Conversational)

OAR: 60 just took it today @ BOSTON, MEPS.

LOR's: Naval Officer, Senior VP of the company under whom I worked for past 3 years, 2 - Colleagues at work Senior Positions.

Lived in 3-different continents with diverse cultures and economies for 10+ years each. Lots of leadership roles during 14+ years of professional experience. Selected for State and National level competitions in sports like gymnastics, cricket and soccer during high school and college.

My recruiter seems to think my profile would line up perfectly for INTEL or CRYPTO or IP. I really want to fulfil my childhood dream of wearing a uniform. Would really appreciate, if you guys could please share your thoughts. File almost ready....Missed today's deadline....Planning to submit soon for Jan 22nd, 2021 deadline....Board to start the Review from March 1st, 2021. I would really appreciate your thoughts? What should I do to be more competitive and secure my place as a Naval Officer? My recruiter suggested to take DLPT (Defense Language Proficiency Test), just incase if I want to make all my languages considered competitive.

Thanks!
 
Last edited:

exNavyOffRec

Well-Known Member
Hey folks. Hope all of you are doing well in this COVID crazy situation.

I've been doing heavy research over the past 6-Months into commissioning as a naval officer. I just wanted to leave my information here to see what you guys think of my chances in shooting for INTELLIGENCE (1830) / CRYPTOLOGIC WARFARE (1810) / INFORMATION PROFESSIONAL (1820) communities:

Male // 40 years // US Citizen // Connecticut // Race: Asian: India
Education:
B.Engg. (Instrumentation & Control) - Specialization in Robotics & Automation (One for the best Engineering Colleges in Pune (Boston) of India).
B.S in Information Technology - Specialization in E-Business. (Private College in Geneva, Switzerland)
M.S in Information Technology - Specialization in Management Information Systems & ERP (Private College in Geneva, Switzerland)
Double M.S. in Finance - Specialization in Corporate Finance & Portfolio Management (Ivy league type Business School in Geneva, Switzerland)
Average GPAs of all above degrees between 3.9 to 4.00

Work Experience:
AML (Anti Money Laundering) Compliance Manager & IT Project Manager - 3 years for a Financial Institution with 8000+ employees. USA
Founder of Technology Startup valued @ $6 Million - 5 years (72 employees) - INDIA , USA.
Senior Private Banker - 3 years (One of the oldest private banks since 1785 for Ultra High Net Worth Clients) - Switzerland.
Junior Financial Analyst - 2 years (Financial Advisory Firm) - Switzerland.
IB and Forex Money Manager - 6 years ( Top FX Market Maker in Switzerland) - Private Business with 22 clients.
Some other part-time jobs during college in Switzerland: Restaurants, International Airport employee, IT Consulting Companies.
Languages: English, French, Hindi, Gujarati, Marathi, German (Read, Write & Speak), and some Urdu (Only Conversational)

OAR: 60 just took it today @ BOSTON, MEPS.

LOR's: Naval Officer, Senior VP of the company under whom I worked for past 3 years, 2 - Colleagues at work Senior Positions.

Lived in 3-different continents with diverse cultures and economies for 10+ years each. Lots of leadership roles during 14+ years of professional experience. Selected for State and National level competitions in sports like gymnastics, cricket and soccer during high school and college.

My recruiter seems to think my profile would line up perfectly for INTEL or CRYPTO or IP. I really want to fulfil my childhood dream of wearing a uniform. Would really appreciate, if you guys could please share your thoughts. File almost ready....Missed today's deadline....Planning to submit soon for Jan 22nd, 2021 deadline....Board to start the Review from March 1st, 2021. I would really appreciate your thoughts? What should I do to be more competitive and secure my place as a Naval Officer? My recruiter suggested to take DLPT (Defense Language Proficiency Test), just incase if I want to make all my languages considered competitive.

Thanks!
Has your recruiter had your foreign degrees evaluated and cleared by NRC? There have been several times where foreign degrees have been turned down, the other thing I would look at is what are your foreign contacts (mainly family) that has been a show stopper for several people as well.

Besides the above items I mentioned your tech degrees and high GPA's will be positive factors in the application review, foreign language ability doesn't matter unless you are going to try and go enlisted, enlisted are the ones that do all translation so that makes me think he is trying to set you up for a contract (maybe reserves) on the enlisted side.

I understand the desire to serve, you should be aware that when you come in you will be at the bottom, you could end up working for a 23 year old and for the most part what you have done in life up to that point won't matter, I mention this because traditionally those who are older who join the military have a harder time adapting.
 

kooljack

New Member
Has your recruiter had your foreign degrees evaluated and cleared by NRC? There have been several times where foreign degrees have been turned down, the other thing I would look at is what are your foreign contacts (mainly family) that has been a show stopper for several people as well.

Besides the above items I mentioned your tech degrees and high GPA's will be positive factors in the application review, foreign language ability doesn't matter unless you are going to try and go enlisted, enlisted are the ones that do all translation so that makes me think he is trying to set you up for a contract (maybe reserves) on the enlisted side.

I understand the desire to serve, you should be aware that when you come in you will be at the bottom, you could end up working for a 23 year old and for the most part what you have done in life up to that point won't matter, I mention this because traditionally those who are older who join the military have a harder time adapting.
I just had a talk with my recruiter today and he told me that my degrees need to be evaluated. But, he didn't have answer to whether he will evaluate for me or I will have to get it accredited myself and send it back to him. He will get back to me on Tuesday regarding the evaluation. All of these degrees need to be evaluated or only one of them? I would really appreciate your input on this topic please...

Thanks!!
 

kooljack

New Member
Has your recruiter had your foreign degrees evaluated and cleared by NRC? There have been several times where foreign degrees have been turned down, the other thing I would look at is what are your foreign contacts (mainly family) that has been a show stopper for several people as well.

Besides the above items I mentioned your tech degrees and high GPA's will be positive factors in the application review, foreign language ability doesn't matter unless you are going to try and go enlisted, enlisted are the ones that do all translation so that makes me think he is trying to set you up for a contract (maybe reserves) on the enlisted side.

I understand the desire to serve, you should be aware that when you come in you will be at the bottom, you could end up working for a 23 year old and for the most part what you have done in life up to that point won't matter, I mention this because traditionally those who are older who join the military have a harder time adapting.
Regarding my immediate relatives, I am single (divorced) here right now. My parents are retired in India...I am planning to file a petition for their immigration (Alien Relative - Green Card). My younger brother is married and happily settled in India. No issues. I have already went once through thorough FBI investigation in the past 3 years as I have to get a KEY STATE LICENSE for the company that I worked for. Please share your suggestions regarding how to facilitate my background check process.

Thanks once again!!1
 

exNavyOffRec

Well-Known Member
I just had a talk with my recruiter today and he told me that my degrees need to be evaluated. But, he didn't have answer to whether he will evaluate for me or I will have to get it accredited myself and send it back to him. He will get back to me on Tuesday regarding the evaluation. All of these degrees need to be evaluated or only one of them? I would really appreciate your input on this topic please...

Thanks!!
The USN will evaluate with their education specialist, they should evaluate all degrees to be fair to you in case one of your UG degrees isn't evaluated favorably.

In regards to your foreign relatives they will evaluate and determine whether they should be concerned or not, any prior background clearances will probably have no bearing as there is a person on this board who has an active clearance but was not cleared for one of the IWC designators.

It is good there is time between the next board submission, some of these items can take time.
 

AULANI

Well-Known Member
Regarding my immediate relatives, I am single (divorced) here right now. My parents are retired in India...I am planning to file a petition for their immigration (Alien Relative - Green Card). My younger brother is married and happily settled in India. No issues. I have already went once through thorough FBI investigation in the past 3 years as I have to get a KEY STATE LICENSE for the company that I worked for. Please share your suggestions regarding how to facilitate my background check process.

Thanks once again!!1
I don't envy the investigator that would have to do your background check, assuming you get that far. Unfortunately your prior investigation with the FBI doesn't really mean anything and just because you were found to be favorable to them doesn't mean it will happen with the DoD.

You say it's your childhood dream to serve but looking at your background you've basically done every non-military thing possible with your education and work experience. Just wondering why join now at 40? There were quite a few people in my OCS class (females) that were all running away from a divorce and trying to re-invent themselves by joining the military. Just be honest with yourself about why you are joining. OCS is not friendly to 40 year olds... I know because I went when I was 39. Either way, good luck!
 

SPECOPS Chicken

SPECOPS Chicken
Admins, request sticky on this one.

Frequently I get asked what is considered "competitive". For those not familiar with this, a competitive profile is a set of preferred (not minimum) qualifications based off previous selection boards. This is essentially what Navy Recruiting Command considers competitive. Of course they vary for specific programs and by no means this is a tool to discourage otherwise qualified applicants. For instance, you should still submit your kit if you have a average/below average ASTB score but a very stellar GPA/major.

Biggest favors for a competitive profile include the following: GPA, OAR/ASTB scores, SAT scores (NUPOC/Collegiate programs only), and other factors (leadership experience, etc.).

With that being said, here's the competitive profile for the major GENOFF programs. This is updated as of September, 2013.

Pilot (1390):

3.3 GPA, 58/6/7/7 ASTB,
Positive factors: Flight license / experience. Leadership/management experience, extracurricular/sports involvement, Strong EVALs if prior service.
Negative factors: Drug use within last year, debt in collection, criminal record.

NFO (1370):

3.25 GPA, 50/6/6/6 ASTB
Positive factors: Flight license / experience. Leadership/management experience, extracurricular/sports involvement, Strong EVALs if prior service.
Negative factors: Drug use within last year, debt in collection, criminal record.

SWO (1160):

3.4 GPA, 50 OAR score
Positive factors: Leadership/management experience, extracurricular/sports involvement, Strong EVALs if prior service
Negative factors: Drug use within last year, debt in collection, criminal record.

SEAL (1180):

3.5 GPA, 43 OAR score
Other factors: Run/Swim <9:00, Pushups/Situps >100, Pullups >20, Competitive sports, Extensive Leadership, Foreign language proficiency

CEC (5100):

3.3 GPA, Architecture/Civil Eng Major (or similar)
Other factors: EIT; Eng/Construction internships; Community Involvement; Leadership positions in athletics or campus organizations, strong motivation statement
Guru,
Still kicking? Threads a little stale. Specifically, what's the latest on 1190/1140 EOD Officer cut? Appreciate any thoughts.
 
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