Blasphemy!
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What NFOs do..
- Thread starter taproot2779
- Start date
Please do - I'm sure we would all be entertained. If you don't like my appraisal of your knowledges about the VP community, check back with me when you have more hours in your platform than I do.
Brett
Brett is making sure that we only have about 10 core contributors on AW...that's all.
USNMerritt, I appreciate what you do on a daily basis. Now kiss and make up u2...
Can you tell that the kinder and gentler HTs are getting to me?! ARGH!!! I've lost my edge...
~D
Oooh, Oooh...cat fight.Please do - I'm sure we would all be entertained. If you don't like my appraisal of your knowledges about the VP community, check back with me when you have more hours in your platform than I do.
Brett
Merritt,
I am not sure how long you have been "in the community", but your lack of knowledge as to career path and state of dh screen, what milestones it takes to screen, etc would make me believe that you are either in the rag, or just barely out. If not, you need to get smart on what it takes to make that screen board or you will have no prayer!
I will stay away from the NFO specifics for this post, and address more the state of the community and the navy05 questions.
To start with, is it hard to make 20 years in the VP Navy? TO a certain extent yes. The DH screen rate for the last few years has hovered around 50% give or take. Last years board was 47%, with the percentage for NFO's screening being slightly higher than for the pilots due to less staying in and an overall smaller number in community. Screening for dh is a tough process, as the numbers show, and there are certain definite milestones that you have to hit on your first tour to make the mark.
**AS ALWAYS THERE CAN BE MINOR EXCEPTIONS, SO SAVE THOSE COMMENTS, BUT THE LAST TWO BOARDS WOULD INDICATE THAT THERE AREN'T ANY**
The career path is pretty set. First tour, break out, go to solid "in community" shore tour (RAG is the preferred choice), break out, GO TO THE BOAT, screen dh, DH tour in squadron, Break out, etc etc. You get the idea. There are several ways to get off on the right foot, make a name for yourself and get on the path to breaking out in your first JO tour, which is crucial. A mediocre first tour is a deal breaker. I am not going to go into the milestone specifics right now, but I will say that one of the best ways to get off on the right foot is to actually go to work!! There is no time to skate by on the "new guy" card, and don't be that guy that doesn't show unless you are flying. You will have a ground job, you will start to learn to lead, and you need to be there. You can make or break your reputation in your squadron in the first few months! Just a tip to get you started.
As for the state of the community, I selected P-3's because I wanted to fly them, I liked the crew concept, I liked the mission variety, and I liked the lifestyle. The lack of flight time issue is a little subjective. There are guys that don't get that much, I agree. And the across the board average is probably not as high as it once was, as Stubby can probably attest. However, do well, get a crew, make IP, be on good deployments and you will get plenty. I left my JO tour with almost 1800 hours pilot time (screw time not included). I got to do every mission I had been trained for "real world". The P-3 is very versatile, and I enjoyed the flying. (ASW on a target is a blast!) Wanna drop ord? Got the opportunity to drop MAV, Slam, Rockeye, MK-82, Harpoon, as well as practice shapes and extorps. In short, I got to do all the things I wanted to in my first tour, and had a blast doing it. Got to take my crew on det to some great places, no parental supervision required. Great experience!
The flight hour problem is less and less of an issue now, as many of the birds that were out of service at the apex of the flight restriction are now refit and coming back to the squadrons, meaning more planes to fly. Also, the hours per month have increased a lot over the low point. Finally, fewer pilots per squadron. All these things add up to more flight hours for you, and a continuing upswing in community health. There are many great things about going VP, and I haven't regretted it for a second.
All that being said, there are also some things that definitely are NOT that great. 3 hour preflights, down birds, dh screen rates, time out of the cockpit for disassociated sea tour, etc, but you have a lot of these issues no matter what route you choose. The screen rate is better in other communities, but it may not be forever. Concern over making career prospects is a valid point, but you need to do well no matter what community you choose.
Choose what you want to fly based on what you would enjoy, what fits your strengths and where you will be happiest and have the best chance to excel, because picking some other community based on a better community screen rate and sucking at it will just make you that smaller percentage that doesn't screen in THAT community.
Bottom line, the screen rates are lower, but it is a great community if it is the type of flying you want to do. Work hard and perform well and you greatly enhance your chances of surviving 20 yrs, but it still may not work out for you. By the time you are in that screen window, it may have gone away. The DH screen in really competetive form for VP is only 3 or 4 years old. No telling if it will still be an issue by the time you get there. Good luck and let me know if you have questions.
I am not sure how long you have been "in the community", but your lack of knowledge as to career path and state of dh screen, what milestones it takes to screen, etc would make me believe that you are either in the rag, or just barely out. If not, you need to get smart on what it takes to make that screen board or you will have no prayer!
I will stay away from the NFO specifics for this post, and address more the state of the community and the navy05 questions.
To start with, is it hard to make 20 years in the VP Navy? TO a certain extent yes. The DH screen rate for the last few years has hovered around 50% give or take. Last years board was 47%, with the percentage for NFO's screening being slightly higher than for the pilots due to less staying in and an overall smaller number in community. Screening for dh is a tough process, as the numbers show, and there are certain definite milestones that you have to hit on your first tour to make the mark.
**AS ALWAYS THERE CAN BE MINOR EXCEPTIONS, SO SAVE THOSE COMMENTS, BUT THE LAST TWO BOARDS WOULD INDICATE THAT THERE AREN'T ANY**
The career path is pretty set. First tour, break out, go to solid "in community" shore tour (RAG is the preferred choice), break out, GO TO THE BOAT, screen dh, DH tour in squadron, Break out, etc etc. You get the idea. There are several ways to get off on the right foot, make a name for yourself and get on the path to breaking out in your first JO tour, which is crucial. A mediocre first tour is a deal breaker. I am not going to go into the milestone specifics right now, but I will say that one of the best ways to get off on the right foot is to actually go to work!! There is no time to skate by on the "new guy" card, and don't be that guy that doesn't show unless you are flying. You will have a ground job, you will start to learn to lead, and you need to be there. You can make or break your reputation in your squadron in the first few months! Just a tip to get you started.
As for the state of the community, I selected P-3's because I wanted to fly them, I liked the crew concept, I liked the mission variety, and I liked the lifestyle. The lack of flight time issue is a little subjective. There are guys that don't get that much, I agree. And the across the board average is probably not as high as it once was, as Stubby can probably attest. However, do well, get a crew, make IP, be on good deployments and you will get plenty. I left my JO tour with almost 1800 hours pilot time (screw time not included). I got to do every mission I had been trained for "real world". The P-3 is very versatile, and I enjoyed the flying. (ASW on a target is a blast!) Wanna drop ord? Got the opportunity to drop MAV, Slam, Rockeye, MK-82, Harpoon, as well as practice shapes and extorps. In short, I got to do all the things I wanted to in my first tour, and had a blast doing it. Got to take my crew on det to some great places, no parental supervision required. Great experience!
The flight hour problem is less and less of an issue now, as many of the birds that were out of service at the apex of the flight restriction are now refit and coming back to the squadrons, meaning more planes to fly. Also, the hours per month have increased a lot over the low point. Finally, fewer pilots per squadron. All these things add up to more flight hours for you, and a continuing upswing in community health. There are many great things about going VP, and I haven't regretted it for a second.
All that being said, there are also some things that definitely are NOT that great. 3 hour preflights, down birds, dh screen rates, time out of the cockpit for disassociated sea tour, etc, but you have a lot of these issues no matter what route you choose. The screen rate is better in other communities, but it may not be forever. Concern over making career prospects is a valid point, but you need to do well no matter what community you choose.
Choose what you want to fly based on what you would enjoy, what fits your strengths and where you will be happiest and have the best chance to excel, because picking some other community based on a better community screen rate and sucking at it will just make you that smaller percentage that doesn't screen in THAT community.
Bottom line, the screen rates are lower, but it is a great community if it is the type of flying you want to do. Work hard and perform well and you greatly enhance your chances of surviving 20 yrs, but it still may not work out for you. By the time you are in that screen window, it may have gone away. The DH screen in really competetive form for VP is only 3 or 4 years old. No telling if it will still be an issue by the time you get there. Good luck and let me know if you have questions.
I didn't know going to work was an option.
Anyway, great post, Stinkster. I give it a 9 out of 10. To make it a 10, I recommend addressing the specific milestones for DH screening. That would be quite valuable in my opinion.
If you don't like my appraisal of your knowledges about the VP community, check back with me when you have more hours in your platform than I do.
Brett
No worries. If ever you want to hear from the dumb retarded kid with one shoe too small, check back with me.
Thanks, though it seems that I specialize in having my cyber-ass handed to me these days. I wonder if there's a pay allowance for that.
I, too, thank you for the post. Very informative.
Like I said before, I am only going off of what previous XO's and one CO have told me. Chances are, they've been out of the saddle for a while and may not know how DH screening is right this second. It seems like it isn't as bad as people make it out to be, which is why I said what I said. However, as also mentioned before, I'll concede any day.
Back to the original post that I responded to, the guy was wondering about the P-3 community and flight hours, etc. I mentioned the MMA because he'll be on that eventually and he can't take the current flight hours as what he'll always get. Basically, take the whole damn thing with a grain of salt.
Now, for the comment about the P-3 advancement, I was going solely off of what I know to this point. It seems as though quite a few of the DH screens not accepted in the last several boards weren't accepted because of crappy tour choices or other signs of not putting forth much effort(in the board's eyes). Like I said before, this comes from those who briefed us on what to expect. If it is different now, hot damn. I'll be looking forward to seeing what its like and I would definitely like to see more P-3 bubs put through.
So, overall, thanks for the information. I like knowing when my information is outdated or incorrect. It seems as though we all see eye-to-eye here, but perhaps I wasn't as eloquent as I should have been. I blame that on my short shoe, seen in the picture to your screen-left.
I think I understand your misconception. DH boards do not screen and "pass" all eligible candidates. Meaning if you are "qualified" you screen for DH. They have a quota based on the manning requirements of the particular community. So if VP needs 50 dept heads in the next year or so the DH board selects the top 50 plus/minus a couple. At that particular screening board the VP community might have had 100 or whatever eligible LTs/LCDRs. It is quite likely that nearly all of them were "qualified", but the board could only pick the top 50.
Then I'm guessing the latest boards those guys were aware of were probably open-season ones where most people who were qualified were accepted.
Apparently I'm only as good as my best source. Maybe I should just make it all up next time and become a CNN reporter.
In the strike fighter community the navigation and even A/A radar is a pilot responsibility backed up by the WSOs. Some squadrons still run the radar as a WSO responsibility. There are a whole lot of other systems for the backseater to run. Having two people can either build or degrade SA, depends on the crew. WSOs are also generally expected to have more knowledge on tactics and systems. As a pilot once told me, what do I need another guy for if he doesn't know more than me.
As for 20 years in the same small community these days, I dunno if it would happen. The navy has become a very dynamic organization with all the IAs, disassociated sea tours, and what not. Aviators are finding themselves doing a lot of interesting things these days, especially NFOs with sensor skills.
For you NFOs in flight school, telling the pilot what to do evolves a bit. Hopefully your pilot does what he is suppose to do and you back him up. Some missions are still directed by the WSOs. For an over all picture the lead WSO is in charge of the flight admin while the lead pilot is in charge of the aircraft in the flight. Alot of these things vary from squadron to squadron. Hopefully this answers more of the NFO question than digressing with off the wall remarks from blackshoes.
As for 20 years in the same small community these days, I dunno if it would happen. The navy has become a very dynamic organization with all the IAs, disassociated sea tours, and what not. Aviators are finding themselves doing a lot of interesting things these days, especially NFOs with sensor skills.
For you NFOs in flight school, telling the pilot what to do evolves a bit. Hopefully your pilot does what he is suppose to do and you back him up. Some missions are still directed by the WSOs. For an over all picture the lead WSO is in charge of the flight admin while the lead pilot is in charge of the aircraft in the flight. Alot of these things vary from squadron to squadron. Hopefully this answers more of the NFO question than digressing with off the wall remarks from blackshoes.
Actually, the current aviation DH screening board has only been around for a couple years. It was brought back because of these exact manning issues in a couple communities, VP being one. In several other communities it has little to no effect.