What kind of people survive ocs & flight school?

[Fly Navy]

Medical attrite is different. Usually not your fault. I think someone like that deserves another chance.

There was also a guy here who knew his sh!t, had great SA, knew the aircraft, etc, but he just couldn't fly worth a damn. They let him go SNFO because he was good in the cockpit, just couldn't do the monkey skills.

 

[VetteMuscle427]

I guess I just don't like the idea of not having a definite place in the Navy. I want to be a Naval Officer first, NFO second. I doubt I'll flunk out for accademic reasons so I just have to motivate myself through the program to make it... I just like sure things I suppose.

 

[Thisguy]

uncertainty sucks, but man, enjoy that BDCP pay and your last year of college before worrying about that stuff.

 

[Squid]

i guess it all comes down to how bad you want it. if you want it that bad, you will jump through whatever hoops to get it. end of story. i was initially intimidated by all the attrition going on (yer out!). who cares. I have it in my head to be #1. if you're #1 you'll never have to worry about finding a job.

 

[wink]

The Navy is seperating attrites and DORs because they no room for them anywhere else. And yes that includes ROTC and USNA. You keep the commission and can go into the Slected Reserves (weekend warrior) if you can find a pay billet. As to zab1001's comment about DORs being undesirable just because they didn't hack aviation, that isn't so at all. Maybe true for some guys for sure. But aviation is highly specialized and puts unusual strain on the body and mind. A guy that can't think at 600 knots can certainly be an SWO or Supply Corps Officer. I personally know a few guys that started in aviation and have done very well in other communities to include command. Unforttunately those days are past. If you DOR you are out of a job now. It isn't because they think you can't hack another job. It is because there is no room for you else where. This summer ROTC is commissioning guys with no real designator or future training assured. I believe they are 1105Ts. We are getting one of these guys ordered in to be a recruiter for a full set of 3 year orders. How is that for a good deal. The Navy is very screwed up personnel wise right now. Don't blow the best shot you have because there isn't a second bite at the apple these days. What happened to a buddy just 18 months ago has no bearing on how DORs or attrites are treated now.

 

[zab1001]

wink's right, I worded that poorly.

 

[TurnandBurn55]

There was also a guy here who knew his sh!t, had great SA, knew the aircraft, etc, but he just couldn't fly worth a damn. They let him go SNFO because he was good in the cockpit, just couldn't do the monkey skills.

Silly stickmonkey... gawd, I couldn't get a damned thing right when I flew the plane... honestly, flying in the front seat made me lose any desire to be a pilot LOL!

I can definetely see that though. There's a lot of people whose performance is marginal in terms of stick-and-rudder skills but who are just sh!t-hot when it comes to navigation and decision-making...

 

[VetteMuscle427]

I bet you can always transfer your commission to the Army for an Infantry slot!

 

[squeeze]

Seriously man, stop worrying about attrition in flight school. Judging by some of the people I've seen pass primary, it doesn't take much these days. The attrition figures you hear are always rigged somehow. There is no 30% attrition from jets or 20% from primary (but there probably is that 0% from helos ) I'm almost convinced they get those numbers from a class and not overall (ie. in a class of 3 if one attrites, boom, 30% attrition)

If you attrite from API or Primary due to academic reasons, you are a dumbass, plain and simple. The academics are like every other Navy/MC school - the reading is an 8th grade level and the tests are multiple choice with rather obvious answers recalled from simple memorization. The only thinking you have to do is in the airplane - ground school is memorization.

They passed a ton of people through primary with sub-35 NSS's. Some were due to the new grading system being screwed up (but even so, it takes a lot to be close enough for a grade error to get you sub-passing marks) and some were due to dumbassitude. Being a FO you don't even have to worry about the monkey skills, which is what causes the most DORs or attrites in flight school. You're a walking navbag - learn stuff and be able to think quick and calculate stuff, or whatever it is they do exactly.

Sure there's lots of bs to deal with, but that goes with any job in the military. And like most jobs, if you apply yourself and show a desire to be there, people will work with you.

/why is the same topic rehashed day in and day out?

 

[phrogdriver]

Nice jab at helos. We do attrite plenty, thanks.

 

[squeeze]

Nice jab at helos. We do attrite plenty, thanks.

:icon_tong hey sir, it's just a joke, but you sound proud of the attrite rates

but it was a helo buddy of mine who said the IPs called MPTS "Must Pass Terrible Students"

 

[Squid]

/why is the same topic rehashed day in and day out?

you get bored of the topics? i never get bored seeing the same questions ad nauseum!

 

[phrogdriver]

I don't believe in "50% attrition is a job half done," but I think that usually you can do without the bottom 10% of any group.

 

[Flash]

don't forget the rumors of a possible RIF. horror story:

a few years ago all the a-poolers went into the auditorium. under their chair was an envelope. if the envelope was pink, they go home. period. winged or not, augment augment augment.

As unbelievable as that is, it actually happened, in the late 60's. The speaker at our dining out (retired Reserve Captain and father to one of our pilots) was in advanced jets when they did just that to the all the guys he was going through flight school with and 80% got pink slips. This was during the bombing halt after the Tet offensive. He was one of the lucky 20% who made it and went straight into the reserves to fly A-4's, tough life.

As for the current problems, like Wink said, it is the Navy's personnel system. We are having problems right now in Prowlers because we have 2 less squadrons than we planned to have 2 years ago (land based to support the Air Force) but we have officers for them. The result is the rest of the squadrons being overmanned and some guys getting screwed. The Navy manages the enlisted troops pretty well but can't seem to get it's act together with the O's. The same thing happened just 10 years ago and the Navy did not learn a damn thing then and is repeating the same mistakes.

 

[ChuckMK23]

I think the bottom line is, as it was in my day doing through in the 80's, if you can stay physically qualified (not get sick or injured) and have a good attitude towards completing the program, once you are selected to Start API, you have a 90%+ chance of completing the program. 90%+ assumes you stay healthy and have a good attitude.

So don't get all anxious about the program - you will hear a few very few naysayers - the bottom 5% - talk negatively about how easy it is to get tagged for attrition. The reality is far from the case because the majority of the guys/gals are busy flying and studying instead of talking ****, lol.

So have fun, assume you will complete the program, work hard but most importantly - STAY HEALTHY. Don't do extreme sports or party your ass off and fall in a pool and hit your head, or drink and drive...you get what I mean. Really look out after your physical well being. Get plenty of sleep, lay off the alcohol, and just study and work out three times a week (low impact stuff). YOU"LL BE FINE !

I remember once I started flying in Primary and got my first few FAMS under my bekt I knew I could handle the program and get my wings. The Navy does an incredible job at systematically teaching a complex thing like flying and breaking it down to the point that my grandmother could have been solo'd. A classmate of mine in VT's was phys ed major from Univ. of Wisconsin. Dumb as a rock we all thought but he really took to the program and went on to fly A-6's and later F/A-18's.

Relax, stay focused, and don't give in to people's petty fears!