What can new SWO officers expect after completing OCS?

[mmx1]

Because in those two years, we get exposure to how a squadron runs (from a spectator perspective. We play a minimal role). We stand a lot of duty, so we are at least mostly prepped for that in the fleet.

We have a GENERAL understanding of how the departments run (or at least what they do): Admin, Safety/NATOPS, Training, OPS, Maintenance, etc. We may have a 10% understanding of what really goes on behind the scenes, but we have a bit of direction and mostly get the big picture.

Whaaat? Try 1%. SDO/AODO (i.e. human phone directory and firewatch) and no shit ODO are night and day. Civilian clerks and contract maintainers don't exactly make for a honest picture of how a squadron runs. ("Whaddya mean I have to do my own travel vouchers? WTF is DTS?")? I feel like I know 10% at the RAG, at least to realize what 90% I don't know. And even then there are some pretty significant differences between a RAG and Fleet squadron (S-2? What's that?). The RAG is getting us pretty well spun up on ground jobs, so I think the end result when we hit the fleet is still superior, since it's 6 months of prep for the ground half of your job.

 

[rrawls]

Uncle Fester, sorry if I came across as whiny or controlling when it comes to the topics that get discussed on this thread. That was not my intention in any way at all.

What I was saying had nothing to do with “sensitivity” and no, you did not hurt my feelings. I respect everyone’s opinion that is given and if that, for example, is a picture of Clubber Lang and his words of “PAIN” (which is a great movie by the way) to describe a SWO then so be it. In fact, Ill be the first to admit I thought that was funny as well as many of the other posts I’ve found while surfing through airwarriors.

I realize for a lot of you guys who have been around for awhile use this site as a way to blow off some steam and express your opinions on the many things that you hate or like about the Navy. However, is it wrong of me as the new guy to ask for advice from the very people that I look up to and hope to become one day? I don’t mean, like you put, to have someone hold my hand and baby me the rest of the way because I am very ready to work my ass off to become a Naval Officer. I just feel that asking questions and looking for advice is what any intelligent person in my situation would be doing.

 

[Jim123]

Yes, the RN and the navies that built on their model all specialize as topsiders or engineers, and only the operational specialty can become a CO.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but don't the big USN steamships (LHA/LHD) have LDO chief engineers? (And of course unrestricted line "eligible for command at sea" operations officers...) That is still the exception to the rule as practically all our other ships have URL CHENGs (gas turbine, diesel, nuke).

 

[BigIron]

What's more idiotic is trying to compare a SWO JO's training path and entry level years with that of an Aviator JO's. They're completely different training and career paths from the beginning. This is the point where the arguments usually start.

My issue is that somewhere along the way, someone told the budding SWOs they are better able to "lead" early on as they hit the fleet right away. That sends a message to my aviation JOs they are poorly equipped to lead and are behind once hitting the fleet as they were delayed in training. It takes years to develop and deliver a Mk-1 Mod 0 pilot to the fleet. That's the nature of the aviation game. Once hitting the fleet as a JG, the learning process begins all over again with new syllabi and qualifications. Add that to learning how to be a Branch O or DIVO and it's a full time gig.

Completely different training and career paths, so to compare them is redonkulous.

 

[FlyBoyd]

The 30-year historical retention for SWOs shows a huge dip in the early ‘90s, but has been at ‘80s levels since the late ‘90s - around 35%.

I am really asking not being an ass.

1 in 3 is good?

Can you (or anyone) help me find the retention numbers for all designators?

 

[Jim123]

[*]Learn early to let things roll-off your shoulders. Prevent the stress/emotion from rolling downhill. You get your ass chewed – deep breath – don’t react to the emotion – what’s the issue – addres sit and move on. EASY SAID THAN DONE IN MANY CASES. Learn this skill and you will be less apt to perpetuate emotion when you are DH or XO or CO.

@rrawls, if you remember nothing else SWO Bubba said then at least remember this point. Tired people are both overly sensitive and come off sounding more pissed off over just about everything... as a young SWO and an old SWO whether you're "giving" or "getting," you're gonna be a tired boy A LOT of the time.

 

[FormerRecruitingGuru]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but don't the big USN steamships (LHA/LHD) have LDO chief engineers? (And of course unrestricted line "eligible for command at sea" operations officers...) That is still the exception to the rule as practically all our other ships have URL CHENGs (gas turbine, diesel, nuke).

Yes.

 

[Thisguy]

OK all AMDO jokes aside, how on earth do you get shore duty working on your masters at ASU? GEV? That's got to be the best deal in the Navy.

If you take a look at my profile, you'll see that I haven't been AMDO since 2005 and lat xfered to the CEC. All CEC Officers get sent to a civilian grad school if they stay in long enough.

Something else I learned today: SWOs are too busy wearing their SWOters and eating SWOughnuts to read an AW profile

 

[SWO Bubba]

What's more idiotic is trying to compare a SWO JO's training path and entry level years with that of an Aviator JO's. They're completely different training and career paths from the beginning. This is the point where the arguments usually start.

My issue is that somewhere along the way, someone told the budding SWOs they are better able to "lead" early on as they hit the fleet right away. That sends a message to my aviation JOs they are poorly equipped to lead and are behind once hitting the fleet as they were delayed in training. It takes years to develop and deliver a Mk-1 Mod 0 pilot to the fleet. That's the nature of the aviation game. Once hitting the fleet as a JG, the learning process begins all over again with new syllabi and qualifications. Add that to learning how to be a Branch O or DIVO and it's a full time gig.

Completely different training and career paths, so to compare them is redonkulous.

BigIron - couldn't agree more. Completely different training and career paths and debating over them is redonkulous. One of the pitches we give to NROTC and USNA mids/OCs is that you can lead early by going SWO. I think that is a fair and accurate statement - it doesn't say anything about quality or disparage other communities. Unfortunately, this gets mutated to the notion that by leading early, SWOs are better leaders than anyone else. That mutation of the original message is simply not true.

I am really asking not being an ass.

1 in 3 is good?

Can you (or anyone) help me find the retention numbers for all designators?

FlyBoyd - I'll do some checking. I know it's close since numbers generally follows the OPA curves. I can never remember the exact def of OPA - I think its Officer Programed Allowance. These numbers are put out by OPNAV N1 and define the end-strength for a community by YG. There is a natural pyramid - you have more Junior Officers than you do Senior Officers, so the 1 out of 2, 1 out of 2.5 or 1 out 3 should be about right. I'll try to find something to link to.

 

[Spekkio]

Still, my original point was the same one a sub dude made in a thread I was reading yesterday. He commented on how after his year and a half of nuke school he still didn't understand routine paperwork given to him by one of his guys.

All the operational training makes great pilots, reactor operators, and ship drivers but it doesn't teach you the 'other half' of your job.

That was me. I suppose the issue is exacerbated by the nuclear Navy wanting all the paperwork to be very particular, but yes it can be daunting to have to take an hour out to learn how to properly review a FWP that would ordinarilly take 5-10 minutes when you have a very tight schedule, and the guy showing you is even more busy and has the "this is so friggin easy" mentality and blows through it.

I would imagine any DIVO is going to run into that issue at some point. My point was that it's just something the training pipeline doesn't really prepare you for, and the only reason I brought it up in the other thread is that being blind sided by a chief or PO1 by these things and looking like a clueless baffoon = loss of command and control, and looking like a bafoon to your CoC = "omfg, another worthless Ensign..." Loosely related to SWO beating in that it's just another thing that can make your life miserable that doesn't have to.

Can you (or anyone) help me find the retention numbers for all designators?

I'd be more interested in knowing what % of those who are retained are prior enlisted.

 

[navybrat88]

You check onboard the ship, stay around for a couple of days or so, and then report back up to Newport to start up SWOS.

How long is SWOS? Recruiter said 4-6 weeks?

 

[HeyJoe]

How long is SWOS? Recruiter said 4-6 weeks?

And why would you doubt the recruiter?

 

[navybrat88]

And why would you doubt the recruiter?

I don't I just wanted to confirm from anyone who had gone through SWOS previously, still trying to gain a bigger picture of what exactly happens after OCS. I know that there are certain qaul's you have to get after to get your SWO Pin. From my understanding SWOS is basically a simulation course to prepare you for earning those quals while out on the ship?

 

[HeyJoe]

I don't I just wanted to confirm from anyone who had gone through SWOS previously, still trying to gain a bigger picture of what exactly happens after OCS. I know that there are certain qaul's you have to get after to get your SWO Pin. From my understanding SWOS is basically a simulation course to prepare you for earning those quals while out on the ship?

Have you read this thread from start to finish?

 

[FormerRecruitingGuru]

And why would you doubt the recruiter?

Ditto. It's about that same timeframe what I heard.

Either way. It's 4-6 weeks in Newport, on the OTHER side of the fence.