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Pope of Chili Town
pilot
Reminds me of what a B-17 crewman told me once. Aerial attacks on B-17 formations were rarely the continuous action seen in movies and TV. Due to the formidable defenses of a B-17 there was a furious wave of slashing attacks that lasted just a very few minutes (depending on the number of fighters in formation), then an interlude of several minutes while the enemy climbed back to altitude and formed for another attack. It was compressed in movies and TV for dramatic effect and to limit the running time.
My loose understanding is that WWII air combat was a lot more slashing then circles.
 

hlg6016

A/C Wings Here
Currently working on A tomb Called Iwo-Jima by Dan King, a perspective to the battle from Japanese eyes.
 

nittany03

FUBIJAR
pilot
None
Super Moderator
Contributor
My loose understanding is that WWII air combat was a lot more slashing then circles.
Not enough thrust for energy-sustaining maneuvers, so everything would inevitably go downhill otherwise.
 

Max the Mad Russian

Hands off Ukraine! Feet too
a 2000 ton Fletcher
AFAIR there was a flashdecker in that book. Which means both vomiting stains and body bruises much wider.

Most valued trait of surface ASW warrior coinsides IMO with most valued trait of a man generally: an endurance. And his ship has to be quick just to cope with surfacing (literally) threats. U-Boat then had to be virtually surfaced to properly aim the torpedoes. Torpedo-Kommando-Geraet, a TDC in USN parlance, was of great help but Der Underseepiratten had to properly evaluate the speed and course of the target, and then it was hardly possible through the P-scope at night or in any other Atlantic darkness.


Even Red Storm Rising, while very good, is still ~40yrs old and I doubt representative of how it would be done today.
Just like the Hunt for Red October, the Soviet reality as described is FAR from reality as it was. During 1970-80s Soviet Navy was sticking with special ethos separating itself from the rest of Soviet military by some kind of irony simultaneously maintaining quite strict discipline within. It was impossible to see the enlisted men freely smoking or drinking onboard, as well as taking clumsy civilian clothes on. Look, the Russian naval sense of a discipline stems from old Cartesian picture that military structure is a watch-like mechanism: every cog and every spring has to do its own job for long and there's no such thing as individual mind: the only "mind" that exists is the mind of a commanding officer. You can find something similar in German and Japanese navies, by the way.
 
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