I was just wondering what Billets are good for pilots, I think being a FAC or a flight instructor would be fun, but which Billets are best for pilots who want to continue flying and stay in for life. I am more intrested in building my resume for the marines and not the civiliam world
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What are some good pilot B- billets?
- Thread starter 1W2gtH
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Hornet-
From the Col. who presented to our TBS class at aviation night, the best promotion for pilots is FAC, AND will get you back into the cockpit fastest. We were told it was somewhat of a misconception that being an instructor is the best way to get flight time in the long term. Although not very sought-after, doing a FAC tour will be rewarded with a payback tour, where essentially the Corps recognizes you didn't want to take the job but did it anyways, now they will hook you up with a fairly sweet post- i.e. back to the squadron.
From the Col. who presented to our TBS class at aviation night, the best promotion for pilots is FAC, AND will get you back into the cockpit fastest. We were told it was somewhat of a misconception that being an instructor is the best way to get flight time in the long term. Although not very sought-after, doing a FAC tour will be rewarded with a payback tour, where essentially the Corps recognizes you didn't want to take the job but did it anyways, now they will hook you up with a fairly sweet post- i.e. back to the squadron.
46Driver
"It's a mother beautiful bridge, and it's gon
You will average about 300 hours a year (if you are lucky) in a fleet squadron. You can generally fly as much as you can force yourself to sit in the cockpit (up to NATOPS max of 960 hours a year) in the training commmand. In other words, you will fly as much in a 3 year training command tour as you would in 8 to 10 years of the fleet.
FAC is good for promotion but make sure you get an agreement from the monitor concerning the follow on tour that you want.
FAC is good for promotion but make sure you get an agreement from the monitor concerning the follow on tour that you want.
If you listen to the company man, you'll get the company line. You just need A ground job by the time you're up for LtCol. Guess what, FAC or not, you'll probably get stuck in a ground job anyway by that time. I'm not dissing FACs, it's just not the end-all-be-all that ex-FACs say it is. If if were so necessary for career-enhancement, they wouldn't have to push FAC billets so hard, involuntarily assigning many of them.
Generally a straight battallion FAC tour is 11 months, to keep a pilot from having to refresh at the FRS afterwards. Air officer tours for senior capts and majors can be longer. Some deploy, others usually don't. You should know when you take the job whether you'll deploy or not. Of course, if something big goes down, that "non-deploying FAC tour" can become deploying in a hurry. Some Tank Bn FACs learned that one last year.
I'm pretty sure it does include training, which is only a few weeks long, anyway. FACs are stationed everywhere we have ground forces, i.e. Lejeune, Pendleton, 29 Palms, HI, and Oki. Keep in mind that you probably won't get a PCS move with a FAC billet. So, if you fly at New River, NC, your FAC tour will be at Lejeune, just down the road. They won't move you to Hawaii to FAC there.
46Driver
"It's a mother beautiful bridge, and it's gon
PhrogDriver,
Just curious. Thought I remembered they extended the time from 12 months to 18 months out of the cockpit before a pilot had to be refreshed in the FRS. HQMC was starting to have some problems with FAC tours (and other types of 1 year tours) running longer so they changed the time variable of being out of the cockpit to save money. Is that correct or do I have that mixed up with something else?
Also heard a few rumors that HQMC was considering wholescale changes to the FAC program. The Air Force (and other services) excellent use of enlisted forward observers in Afghanistan and Iraq calling in airstrikes prompted the idea. The thinking was that this could free up aviators for other billets and let enlisted handle the traditional FAC job.
Just curious. Thought I remembered they extended the time from 12 months to 18 months out of the cockpit before a pilot had to be refreshed in the FRS. HQMC was starting to have some problems with FAC tours (and other types of 1 year tours) running longer so they changed the time variable of being out of the cockpit to save money. Is that correct or do I have that mixed up with something else?
Also heard a few rumors that HQMC was considering wholescale changes to the FAC program. The Air Force (and other services) excellent use of enlisted forward observers in Afghanistan and Iraq calling in airstrikes prompted the idea. The thinking was that this could free up aviators for other billets and let enlisted handle the traditional FAC job.
The time for helo pilots before refreshing is 18 months. The jet guys refresh after 12. Everyone I know who was on a regular FAC tour, not an AirO tour, is still getting back in one year, war notwithstanding. I know that a lot of squadrons, my old one included s**tcan 1 or 2 junior capts to 1 year FAC tours between scheduled deployments, and they're back in time to float with their original sqdns.
I keep reading about using enlisted FACs, as well. I think it's a good idea. There's no magical mind meld between CAS assets and FACs, just because they're both aviators. I have no better understanding of combined arms by sole virtue of being a pilot than, say, an arty FO. Unless you put a rule in saying only strike or skid pilots can be FACs (THEN we'd have a FAC shortage), anyone who goes to FAC training would do pretty much as well. I think the pilot as FAC thing is just a manifestation of the Marine "Every Marine a rifleman" doctrine gone amok.
Why does every B-billet discussion lead back to FACs?
I keep reading about using enlisted FACs, as well. I think it's a good idea. There's no magical mind meld between CAS assets and FACs, just because they're both aviators. I have no better understanding of combined arms by sole virtue of being a pilot than, say, an arty FO. Unless you put a rule in saying only strike or skid pilots can be FACs (THEN we'd have a FAC shortage), anyone who goes to FAC training would do pretty much as well. I think the pilot as FAC thing is just a manifestation of the Marine "Every Marine a rifleman" doctrine gone amok.
Why does every B-billet discussion lead back to FACs?
Dude, I've never been a FAC. I've also never poked myself in the eye repeatedly with a sharp stick, yet still feel qualified to advise others on the relative merits of ocular-plant contact, or lack thereof. I base my opinions of FACs purely on observation over the past 9 years.
I have nothing against FACs. The majority are very capable officers. I just think that the company line which says FAC experience is key to understanding the MAGTF and essential to career development is a load of BS. If it were such a great deal, the Corps wouldn't have to involuntarily assign so many FAC billets. If you're into the grunt thing, have a ball. If not, take your B-billet ass to the FRS or P-cola and fly some more. You should probably get your ground ticket punched by the time you're getting looked at for LtCol. Until that point, it's all about MOS CREDIBILITY, i.e. are you a capable pilot and squadron officer?
There are a million B-billets. The further you get away from the conventional FAC and IP jobs, the riskier it gets from a career advancement perspective. I'm not a careerist, but all things being equal, you should keep that in mind while making a decision--50% of LtCol pay is a lot better that 50% of a major's come retirement. OSO (officer recruiter) is a big one. NROTC instructor is hard to get, but an option. Postgraduate school is good, but you have to take a "payback" tour, usually 3 yrs, meaning 2 yrs school+3 yrs payback=5 yrs out of the cockpit. The Corps also has Foreign Area Officers and Regional Area Officers, who become specialists in certain countries languages, etc. That's an interesting track for a B-billet, but way off the career turnpike. Security Forces is another option, if you dig the gun club aspect of the Corps. There's a bunch, you just have to know who to ask when the time comes.
I have nothing against FACs. The majority are very capable officers. I just think that the company line which says FAC experience is key to understanding the MAGTF and essential to career development is a load of BS. If it were such a great deal, the Corps wouldn't have to involuntarily assign so many FAC billets. If you're into the grunt thing, have a ball. If not, take your B-billet ass to the FRS or P-cola and fly some more. You should probably get your ground ticket punched by the time you're getting looked at for LtCol. Until that point, it's all about MOS CREDIBILITY, i.e. are you a capable pilot and squadron officer?
There are a million B-billets. The further you get away from the conventional FAC and IP jobs, the riskier it gets from a career advancement perspective. I'm not a careerist, but all things being equal, you should keep that in mind while making a decision--50% of LtCol pay is a lot better that 50% of a major's come retirement. OSO (officer recruiter) is a big one. NROTC instructor is hard to get, but an option. Postgraduate school is good, but you have to take a "payback" tour, usually 3 yrs, meaning 2 yrs school+3 yrs payback=5 yrs out of the cockpit. The Corps also has Foreign Area Officers and Regional Area Officers, who become specialists in certain countries languages, etc. That's an interesting track for a B-billet, but way off the career turnpike. Security Forces is another option, if you dig the gun club aspect of the Corps. There's a bunch, you just have to know who to ask when the time comes.
In attempt to get away from the FAC discussion, one of the things I’ve heard is that a T-34 instructor is one of the least career enhancing. I’m sure a lot of people want it just because it would be fun. So then, would a billet as an advanced or FRS instructor be more enhancing? I can only assume it would be more inline with the MOS credibility?
E5, you make it sound like flight school is hard. Just wait till RI’s if you were good at the etch a sketch you had in the third grade, you should be just fine. That’s all we do in the sims and then again back in the air is try and draw the perfect little shape on the screen.
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