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View of Officer Candidates
- Thread starter BOCOD
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phrogpilot73
Well-Known Member
This is not true.
Everything you have done in the Navy is worth something, only it's worth nothing right now. It is important to realize that you ARE NOT enlisted anymore. Yes, I know the technicals about ID cards, instructions, what have you. However, there is a definite mentality shift that must occur. So stop thinking you are still enlisted, and start thinking that you are a future officer. It gives the new mentality time to sink in.
I do not mean forget where you came from. Hardly - your sailors will thank you if you don't.
BlackBearHockey
go blue...
This is the big gripe I have with the OC/MECEP thing: I really wish OCs kept their rate/rank in a fashion similar to MECEPs. It really doesn't mean anythign aside form the uniform and how you address them, but that alone has a psychological feeling behind it. In terms of camaraderie, I would consider an OC my peer much sooner than I would consider a MECEP such. Maybe that's because I'm not a Marine option, maybe not. I understand that we'll both be O-1s in a few years, but they have a significant amount of experience that is worth more than any of my salty summer cruises, and I think some of that gets lost in the OC phase.
I think this differs a lot from unit to unit. We call our E-7 OCs "Chief"- not OC Soandso. I see where Phrog is coming from, but there should definitely be a difference between a fleet experienced Petty Officer and a "dunno how to iron my uniform" 18 yr old MIDN.
That said, MIDN are your peers and should be treated as such. The exception may be the younger ones who can benefit a lot from some mentoring from a salty sailor such as yourself.
That said, MIDN are your peers and should be treated as such. The exception may be the younger ones who can benefit a lot from some mentoring from a salty sailor such as yourself.
I know all too well the "transition" and am not saying I am holding on to being enlisted. I just feel that technically we are still enlisted, but like I just said, we are going thru a transition. I am all for that otherwise I would not have applied. I also know when I get commissioned my previous experiences won't mean much because I will be a nub all over again. It is mostly the marines that piss me off. I have put in over 9 years in already and have achieved a lot. I just wish there would be a little bit of recognition for that instead of being told I have to show respect to a PFC because he outranks me. That is a load of BS. He will get respect as long as he shows me some as well. I also understand the midship are my peers, but we are different in the fact that most OC's have fleet experience. I think there should be some way to seperate between an OC and MIDN besides the fact that I have a warfare device and they don't.
You're not enlisted anymore. Like was said before, you're an Officer Candidate. Most likely, you're going to be an Officer. Right now you're in the odd middle ground that is occupied by mids, OCs, candidates, etc. Technically, in the grand scheme you fall somewhere between enlisted and an O-1. So, you do outrank a PFC. And there is a way to seperate OCs from Mids. It's in your title. And your pay. That's why you're called an OC and not a Mid. You'll be working hand in hand with your peers from now until the end of your career, both in ROTC and in the fleet as officers. Use your fleet experience for the best in the coming years, not as a way to differentiate yourself from your peers.
Are you stepping up and earning respect? Or are you just hanging out, not doing anything for anybody, and then demanding respect?
At the nrotc unit I am at, there are a lot of nuke OC's who have been in for like 6 months and are E-5's and they set a bad standard for the few OC's who actually have more sea time than the Midshipmen. But the ones who actually earn respect, get it. They are the ones that people go to for things.
FWIW, as far as I understand it (and it's about as clear as mud), MECEP's are the lowest ranking students at an nrotc unit. I believe Midshipmen and OC's outrank enlisted sailors/Marines. There is no way that an E-1 outranks you...and if he thinks he does, why don't you pull him in a back room and educate him?
At the nrotc unit I am at, there are a lot of nuke OC's who have been in for like 6 months and are E-5's and they set a bad standard for the few OC's who actually have more sea time than the Midshipmen. But the ones who actually earn respect, get it. They are the ones that people go to for things.
FWIW, as far as I understand it (and it's about as clear as mud), MECEP's are the lowest ranking students at an nrotc unit. I believe Midshipmen and OC's outrank enlisted sailors/Marines. There is no way that an E-1 outranks you...and if he thinks he does, why don't you pull him in a back room and educate him?
Well, I'd chalk it all up to being in a "Student Under Instruction" (STUINS) phase of your life. It's intent, albeit it being implemented in varying ways at different sites (apparently), is to "normalize the group". You're all Smacks, but you're all Smacks together...regardless of past experiences. It really is the only way...
When I went through AOCS in 1971, we had a grunch of ex-Army rotary wing guys with a buttload of no-kidding hard combat experience going through the program as well. To their credit, they shut up, played the game, and took their punishment alongside all of us fresh-outta-college snot-noses who had never heard a shot fired in anger. Then they very quietly donned their Silver Stars, DFCs and Purple Hearts when it came time to dress up for the graduation parade. Highest award I ever saw on an AOC was a Distinguished Service Cross. My point is, they knew they were "transitioning" to another community and another way of life, and understood that there wee some "non-cash" initiation fees that they had to pay. Trust me...it's all worth it.
When I went through AOCS in 1971, we had a grunch of ex-Army rotary wing guys with a buttload of no-kidding hard combat experience going through the program as well. To their credit, they shut up, played the game, and took their punishment alongside all of us fresh-outta-college snot-noses who had never heard a shot fired in anger. Then they very quietly donned their Silver Stars, DFCs and Purple Hearts when it came time to dress up for the graduation parade. Highest award I ever saw on an AOC was a Distinguished Service Cross. My point is, they knew they were "transitioning" to another community and another way of life, and understood that there wee some "non-cash" initiation fees that they had to pay. Trust me...it's all worth it.
Renegae One said it nicely. I'll say it like this... You sound like you're whining. It's 13 damn weeks. It's OCS and the way it is, if you don't like it, DOR. If not, pray your DI and class staff aren't reading this (I would bet they are).
Oh yeah, it's "Marines" not marines.
Oh yeah, it's "Marines" not marines.
If you think training is needed, then suggest it to your Battalion CO. Maybe even broach the issue with your counselor. It sounds like some people at your unit are seriously jacked up.
I can understand a little confusion with these "in between" ranks (OC, MIDN), but if someone thinks an E-1 outranks an OC, they are waaaaay off.
EDIT: I agree with HueyCobra...don't be one of those OCs who has a chip on your shoulder, only talks to other OCs, and thinks MIDN and Marines are wasting their oxygen (note: this behavior is most common among nukes who never made it to the fleet). I'm not saying you are- you sound like you understand how this all should work, but if you're going to crack down on the MECEPs, make sure your own guys aren't being tools as well.
I can understand a little confusion with these "in between" ranks (OC, MIDN), but if someone thinks an E-1 outranks an OC, they are waaaaay off.
EDIT: I agree with HueyCobra...don't be one of those OCs who has a chip on your shoulder, only talks to other OCs, and thinks MIDN and Marines are wasting their oxygen (note: this behavior is most common among nukes who never made it to the fleet). I'm not saying you are- you sound like you understand how this all should work, but if you're going to crack down on the MECEPs, make sure your own guys aren't being tools as well.
According to your profile you're still a college student? Thus you have no experince on the matter and thus are pretty much... wrong.
Huh? Please tell me why I'm wrong. Granted, this is the only part of military I have any real knowledge of, but I've spent 3 years in an ROTC unit so I kind of know how it works.
Do you think E-1 outrank OCs?
DevilDog9782
New Member
Sounds like you got a little bit of a chip on your shoulder. With your experience, you should understand that is how it is in any schools command not just OCS. I remember calling ourselves lance lieutenants in TBS from getting yelled (or "educated") at so much by the enlisted Marines. The same holds true for flight school, as a stud, you'll often feel like bottom of the totem pole. There were plenty of priors that I'm sure had plenty more experience than you had and never complained in public. You really need to get over it and earn respect before demanding it.
BTW, any reason why you capitalize Sailors but not Marines - seems like you're behaving a little immature..
BTW, any reason why you capitalize Sailors but not Marines - seems like you're behaving a little immature..
Yeah, when those "enlisted marines" salute you in a few years it will be all worth it...
If people are telling you things you know not to be true, why don't you man up, find the supporting information and confront them about it. Or, if things are as bad as you say, maybe if you just wait long enough and rant about it on the internet, someone else will step up and fix it for you, right?...
Also, who cares if the average Sailor or Marine doesn't understand your exact relationship as an OC to the Midshipmen and MECEP's that surround you? If it's that big of a deal, lock them on.
If people are telling you things you know not to be true, why don't you man up, find the supporting information and confront them about it. Or, if things are as bad as you say, maybe if you just wait long enough and rant about it on the internet, someone else will step up and fix it for you, right?...
Also, who cares if the average Sailor or Marine doesn't understand your exact relationship as an OC to the Midshipmen and MECEP's that surround you? If it's that big of a deal, lock them on.
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