-
Please take a moment and update your account profile. If you have an updated account profile with basic information on why you are on Air Warriors it will help other people respond to your posts. How do you update your profile you ask?
Go here:
Edit Account Details and Profile
Video of V-22 debut at Farnborough
- Thread starter mmx1
- Start date
Riper Snifle
OCC 194 TBS C 03-07
Very true, I would not expect anyone to loop a transport with passengers inside, that is dangerous joy riding and completely unnecessary. The CH-53 was looped and barrel rolled with just a Marine Major and a Sikorsky test pilot, the back of it was empty, they were testing the aircraft's capabilities and pushing it to the limit. The video claimed at the end it was amazing accomplishment in comparison to a C-130. I doubt that many other CH-53 pilots other than those two have ever looped or barrel rolled a Ch-53, it is still interesting to note that it could. This idea sparked curiousity in me over the V-22. The problems the V-22 have had probably kept many pilots from wanting to try these maneuvers, I was just curious if it was capable or not.
"Silencing others, however, just because you don't like them or "I have wings, yoiu don't" or whatever seems very "Commie" or Taliban "Mullah"-like... It would be nice if people focused on attacking what's posted rather than drowning everyone with "Ad Hominem" nauseum."
Theres alot of that going around, 'seats taken, we dont take kindly to your type around here'
I dont know your history, but i dont see anything totally off base, although free speach doesnt apply here, i think the free exchange of ideas, is inherently good, if you are a dumbass, it will be shown, if you are wise it will also be shown. Although this is a select audience.
Theres alot of that going around, 'seats taken, we dont take kindly to your type around here'
I dont know your history, but i dont see anything totally off base, although free speach doesnt apply here, i think the free exchange of ideas, is inherently good, if you are a dumbass, it will be shown, if you are wise it will also be shown. Although this is a select audience.
And believe it or not, there is almost always room to reform yourself.
FYI JJ, I read the article too. They didn't say exactly why it happened, but it seems they attributed it to the fact the deicing (antiicing?) equipment isn't installed on these aircraft, but will be included on the new aircraft just coming out of production. They also said on the return trip they'll avoid any similar instrument conditions due to the trouble they encountered on the trip over. I'll try and find the article.
Here it is:
http://www.military.com/NewsContent/0,13319,105928,00.html?ESRC=marine-a.nl
Under "More Bang"
http://www.military.com/NewsContent/0,13319,105928,00.html?ESRC=marine-a.nl
Under "More Bang"
I think sometimes compressor stalls can lead to the "fireball" but I would say most compressor stalls, while they can be serious, are fairly innocuous. The symptoms can include a "popping" sound and/or fluctuating engine instruments (especially engine temp, if I recall). As for what causes them, there can be several things, but they are all related to reduced air flow over the compressor blades, even "too high AOA" over the compressor blades, I think.
Some thoughts on the contents of this thread...
That is really not what a compressor stall generally looks like, especially not in a turboshaft aircraft, like any type of rotorcraft. I've had compressor stalls in every aircraft I've flown in EXCEPT the V-22. They are nothing to wig out over. Yes, you need to land to be "better safe than sorry," but they're hardly unusual, and generally not spectacular. Generally nothing more than a coughing sound in the engine and a hiccup on the gouges. Also, they aren't due to high AOA in the sense it's generally understood. They're caused by localized high AOA in the airflow in a portion of the compressor, which is not related to the AOA of the aircraft. This can be caused by ice interrupting airflow, damage to rotors or stators, etc.
It's not a trick at all to fly the Osprey with an engine out. In APLN it has tons of excess power. Depending on load, VTOL flying may be limited by lack of power, but that's true of any rotorcraft.
Again, a compressor stall is not unique to any aircraft. A "remove and replace" on an engine is not unusual anywhere, and doesn't mean they "trashed" it. They send them back to the factory, and the factory fixes it up.
I'm told it has barrel rolled back in the early testing days. It can be looped in the sim, but I don't think that's been tried in real life. Both manuevers are in excess of NATOPS limits, as they were for the 53.
Advanced is a combination of an abbreviated helo syllabus and an abbreviated C-12/maritime-type syllabus.
No, not in that one, actually.
That is really not what a compressor stall generally looks like, especially not in a turboshaft aircraft, like any type of rotorcraft. I've had compressor stalls in every aircraft I've flown in EXCEPT the V-22. They are nothing to wig out over. Yes, you need to land to be "better safe than sorry," but they're hardly unusual, and generally not spectacular. Generally nothing more than a coughing sound in the engine and a hiccup on the gouges. Also, they aren't due to high AOA in the sense it's generally understood. They're caused by localized high AOA in the airflow in a portion of the compressor, which is not related to the AOA of the aircraft. This can be caused by ice interrupting airflow, damage to rotors or stators, etc.
It's not a trick at all to fly the Osprey with an engine out. In APLN it has tons of excess power. Depending on load, VTOL flying may be limited by lack of power, but that's true of any rotorcraft.
Again, a compressor stall is not unique to any aircraft. A "remove and replace" on an engine is not unusual anywhere, and doesn't mean they "trashed" it. They send them back to the factory, and the factory fixes it up.
I'm told it has barrel rolled back in the early testing days. It can be looped in the sim, but I don't think that's been tried in real life. Both manuevers are in excess of NATOPS limits, as they were for the 53.
Advanced is a combination of an abbreviated helo syllabus and an abbreviated C-12/maritime-type syllabus.
JetJunkie said:No.
"Oh Ma Gawd" is right....
Some of your bretheren gave up their lives in the one above.
No, not in that one, actually.
pdx
HSM Pilot
By definition, a compressor stall occurs when the angle of attack of the compressor blades exceeds a critical angle.
There is no "decrease compressor AoA" button, though, so it is more useful to think about the things that lead to this high AoA. These can be all sorts of things (maneuvering, sudden increase in load, turbine spool up, constriction of air flow, turbulent airflow, etc).
A fireball shooting out of the engine is a pretty severe compressor stall. Most of them are tamer than that. Also, compressor stall does not always cause engine damage.
I've had my share of compresser stalls in the JT-3s(I believe I got that right;it's the non CFM DC8 engine) and it wasn't a big deal. Now compressor stall the GE or PandW engines on the 767 and you've probably caused some major damage. One of our 767 captains kept reverse in too long causing a compressor stall which resulted in two million dollars worth of damage and six months off.
I think the Corps needs something to replace the 46 and theV- 22 looks like it's the ticket. I just wonder about what will happen if you have a couple down in a hot LZ; will you be able to recover them? My old composite squadron had two 46s shot down in RVN and we sent in the 53s to recover them(after things cooled down) but when we lost a 53 it was stripped and abandoned due to it being too heavy to sling out. Abandoning a couple of V22s would be a major fiscal thump to the Corps.
I think the Corps needs something to replace the 46 and theV- 22 looks like it's the ticket. I just wonder about what will happen if you have a couple down in a hot LZ; will you be able to recover them? My old composite squadron had two 46s shot down in RVN and we sent in the 53s to recover them(after things cooled down) but when we lost a 53 it was stripped and abandoned due to it being too heavy to sling out. Abandoning a couple of V22s would be a major fiscal thump to the Corps.
Compressor stalls can be caused by many things, including high AOA, disrupted airflow to the intake, or a damaged compressor. Symptoms across the board are usually pops and/or bangs along with decreasing/stagnant or fluctuating RPM and rising/fluctuating engine temps. I've never had one, but I don't think they always involve a fireball out the tailpipe. Though they can.
Loss of first Tomcat
The first Tomcat flight was uneventful. However, the aircraft suffered a hydraulic failure on the second flight and was returning to the field when all hydraulics were loss and the aircrew ejected on short final.
Mefesto's point is still valid though. It used to be merely the cost of doing business to lose several aircraft and sometimes pilots as well during the development phase. Tom Wolfe wrote about the life of test pilots in the right stuff and how many funerals they attended on a routine basis. Life of a test pilot is still as challenging as ever, but technology and design knowledge are so advanced now that losing aircraft in flight test isn't so routine anymore, but it does happen on occasion as it has several times during V-22 program to date.
Mefesto said:
The first Tomcat flight was uneventful. However, the aircraft suffered a hydraulic failure on the second flight and was returning to the field when all hydraulics were loss and the aircrew ejected on short final.
Mefesto's point is still valid though. It used to be merely the cost of doing business to lose several aircraft and sometimes pilots as well during the development phase. Tom Wolfe wrote about the life of test pilots in the right stuff and how many funerals they attended on a routine basis. Life of a test pilot is still as challenging as ever, but technology and design knowledge are so advanced now that losing aircraft in flight test isn't so routine anymore, but it does happen on occasion as it has several times during V-22 program to date.