VICTORY in IRAQ?? What is Victory?? Is there any substitute for VICTORY??

[Zissou]

When Bremmer came in and disbanded the military during his de-Baathification, he put hundreds of thousands of people out of work overnight in order to "start over from scratch". That, I believe, was a very fatal mistake and he should have simply cherry-picked key elements to remove and let the rest of the infrastructure of the country do it's thing. I am of the opinion that there would not have been an insurgency if we hadn't fired a couple hundred thousand people overnight who could have literally rectified the country within months, being in the positions that they were.

I wrote a long reply but everyone would have gotten dizzy from my grammar and punctuation.

Your paragraph above tells me all I need to know about your experience with U/W and the Iraq insurgency specifically. Getting you up to speed would take more time than I have.

In a nutshell: The insurgency was in place well before we crossed the LD. Iranian SF had been doing FID missions prior to the Baghdad Thunder Run. As far as Im concerned the war STARTED in February 04.

 

[Flash]

I wrote a long reply but everyone would have gotten dizzy from my grammar and punctuation.

Your paragraph above tells me all I need to know about your experience with U/W and the Iraq insurgency specifically. Getting you up to speed would take more time than I have.

In a nutshell: The insurgency was in place well before we crossed the LD. Iranian SF had been doing FID missions prior to the Baghdad Thunder Run. As far as Im concerned the war STARTED in February 04.

By no means was the insurgency mostly Iran's doing, though they are by no means innocent in all of this......and any further details will probably have to be taken to the SIPR or JWICS AW.

 

[Mumbles]

.....is there such a thing?

 

[Zissou]

By no means was the insurgency mostly Iran's doing, though they are by no means innocent in all of this......and any further details will probably have to be taken to the SIPR or JWICS AW.

Roger

 

[Flash]

.....is there such a thing?

We could start one!

 

[mmx1]

By no means was the insurgency mostly Iran's doing, though they are by no means innocent in all of this......and any further details will probably have to be taken to the SIPR or JWICS AW.

According to Chief Nance (in his book The Terrorists of Iraq), the insurgency was mostly Saddam's doing, with Al Qaeda a distant third, and Iran providing little if nothing until after the fall of Baghdad.

Just throwing an open source data point out there.

 

[nittany03]

We could start one!

Good Lord, I spend too much free time on the computer here anyway. Move that to the vault and the ITs are going to start giving me weird looks . . . :icon_tong

 

[bluesig1]

According to Chief Nance (in his book The Terrorists of Iraq), the insurgency was mostly Saddam's doing, with Al Qaeda a distant third, and Iran providing little if nothing until after the fall of Baghdad.

Just throwing an open source data point out there.

I agree, Saddam had a long history of dealing with insurgency in his country while he was in charge. As the US government has figured out, the only type of reasoning insurgents listen to is that of force.

 

[m0tbaillie]

I wrote a long reply but everyone would have gotten dizzy from my grammar and punctuation.

Your paragraph above tells me all I need to know about your experience with U/W and the Iraq insurgency specifically. Getting you up to speed would take more time than I have.

In a nutshell: The insurgency was in place well before we crossed the LD. Iranian SF had been doing FID missions prior to the Baghdad Thunder Run. As far as Im concerned the war STARTED in February 04.

There are plenty of people who would refute your claim that the insurgency was "well in place" before we showed up. It just depends where you get your news from and who you talk to. Saying that the insurgency was Saddam's doing somewhat befuddles me, because calling it "the insurgency" implies that we're talking about post-invasion Iraq (read: post-Saddam Iraq) and what would it have been then, extremist groups? Saddam was known for many awful things, but I've never seen cold hard evidence that would say he embraced extremists.

If you can provide any actual evidence/reading then I'd definitely be open to that.

"The insurgency began shortly after the 2003 Coalition invasion of Iraq and before the establishment of a new Iraqi government. From at least 2004, and as of May 2007, the insurgency has primarily targeted Coalition armies and, latterly, Iraqi security forces seen as collaborators with whom they consider the enemy"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iraqi_insurgency

Yes, I realize I just quoted Wikipedia.

 

[OUSOONER]

I'd take a SEAL's word over WIKI.

EDIT...in this case anyway.

 

[Zissou]

You can find plenty of people who would refute anything.

The infrastructure that provided material, training, and leadership to combatants was in place in varying degrees of sophistication well before the conflict. The combat power of what would become known as the insurgency.

I'm not saying Saddam had anything to do with the ACM aside from minor tribal influences in the areas most sincerely tied to his power base.

Depends on what you consider an extremist group. And what you consider hard evidence of his tolerance of them. If you're looking for a decent read by a reputable author who directly states the presence of foreign national Muslim Army in Iraq under Saddam's last days? THUNDER RUN.

Like I said, MY OPINION, is that Feb 04 is when the insurgency started. Thats based on nothing more than being there at the time and my recollection of the day to day meatgrinder that it became.

Following Flash's guidance on discussion of things that may be on the net but not cleared for release. To be frank, I dont know for certain what is and is not a public fact. (not insinuating that Im Mr. Secretguy by any means).

Maybe a Presidential Finding brought this about: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/01/25/AR2007012502199_pf.html

 

[A4sForever]

...If you can provide any actual evidence/reading then I'd definitely be open to that......

Uhhhh ... he's actually "been there".

You're a college student.

'Nuff said.

 

[Zissou]

I'd take a SEAL's word over WIKI.

EDIT...in this case anyway.

I do not speak for ANY military organization.

My opinions are my own.

 

[OUSOONER]

I do not speak for ANY military organization.

My opinions are my own.

I was going more for..."a guy who has BTDT..over an unreliable internet source where Joe Blow can edit in their own gouge"

 

[mmx1]

I'd take a SEAL's word over WIKI.

EDIT...in this case anyway.

Look up Senior Chief Malcolm Nance's credentials. But yes, in this case the Wiki is definitely useless.