Vance and Jets

[Strobes]

I'm in API right now and will be in Vance on March 6th (knock on wood). I and 2 of my buddies are going and we all hope for jets. How does Vance play out in the whole jet selection thing? If we start in march, does that mean we will finish near the end of the fiscal year? Do classes start weekly (like in API) or do we class up only once a month?

 

[NavyLonghorn]

Classes in Vance start every three weeks. It will take you six months on the dot to finish.


So yeah, very good chance you will butt up against the FY.

And ahh.. the jet question.

Getting jets out of Vance is no different then getting jets anywhere else. A certain number of people, based on a curve, are going to have an NSS high enough to sellect jets.

However, going to Vance, you will run into two problems.

1. The AirForce grading system, Is /NOT/ based on a curve. A drop is given to each class, and students are ranked amongst their class only.

What does this mean for you? It means, their are very few instructors that know or care what an NSS is, or how an NSS works.

Also, their is no need for a squadron wide grading standard , as long as grading amongst a class (or even just a flight) are standardised, the grades will work out for the class.

This means their could be a class that works down from a 5, while another works up from a 4. Not a problem for an AF kid, but a problem for a navy guy that is compared the people that graduated ahead of him.

2. If you are in the 8th, your CO is Air Force, and the whole squadron in general is kinda detached from the Navy. You arent going to have a skipper that goes to bat for you (like ive heard is done at places like Corpus?).

All of this being said. In my class both marines got Jets cause they were both Rock Stars. None of the Navy got jets (one could have, but didnt want them).

Conclusion, regardless of any problems with grading, etc., if you arent in the grey area, you will get jets. If you are in the grey area, it could go either way.

Do your best, work hard, and see where the chips fall. Good luck.

 

[Strobes]

Thanks for the advice. About how many Navy/USMC guys were in your class/flight? How many are typically in a class? Are there a lot of guys/gals up there now?

 

[NavyLonghorn]

Four Navy and two Marine per class seemed standard. A flight is half of the class, so just divide by two.

If you can get out of going to Vance, I would reccomend doing so.

After experiencing Navy training.. its way better.

 

[reapergm]

Im going to Vance the saturday after graduation (Mar 11). Im a Marine who wants jets(provided I get through this little API thing), but I know its a crap shoot. Ive heard people say you have a better shot, but, atleast for Marines.. its still "Needs of the Corps." Didnt they have a helo draft about a month back? Ill work for the grades, but I will go in expecting it to go either way.

 

[KBayDog]

Didnt they have a helo draft about a month back?

Uh, no.

 

[NavyLonghorn]

Im going to Vance the saturday after graduation (Mar 11). Im a Marine who wants jets(provided I get through this little API thing), but I know its a crap shoot. Ive heard people say you have a better shot, but, atleast for Marines.. its still "Needs of the Corps." Didnt they have a helo draft about a month back? Ill work for the grades, but I will go in expecting it to go either way.

The NSS is calculated using only Marines at Vance. therefore to say someone has a better shot out of Vance, is illogical. Alot of dudes got jets lately, cause alot of really really qualified marines showed up at the same time. We are talking about dudes that were the top of their class Navy Airforce Marines combined. We are talking about dudes that had Notes Warnings and Cautions, word for word, memorised, before they showed up to their first flight. If anything, your chances to get jets are gonna be worse, because their were some amazing people around the last year from the Marines. Going to Vance for jets is just plain bad gouge.

 

[nocal80]

The NSS is calculated using only Marines at Vance. therefore to say someone has a better shot out of Vance, is illogical. Alot of dudes got jets lately, cause alot of really really qualified marines showed up at the same time. We are talking about dudes that were the top of their class Navy Airforce Marines combined. We are talking about dudes that had Notes Warnings and Cautions, word for word, memorised, before they showed up to their first flight. If anything, your chances to get jets are gonna be worse, because their were some amazing people around the last year from the Marines. Going to Vance for jets is just plain bad gouge.

doesn't the NSS calculation use navy dudes at Vance as well? It is a navy standard score, isn't it? I wouldn't think using Marines only would give a large enough sample to get accurate NSS's. Having the Notes, warnings, cautions memorized before their first flight probably didn't have much to do with them getting jets. I'm sure it didn't hurt and you have to know your stuff, but in the end it comes down to how you fly the airplane.

 

[NavyLonghorn]

According to the dudes in the know at Vance, the Marines and Navy were not compared for NSS purposes.

You are winged, I am not, so, Ill defer to your opinion as far as what makes a good pilot. However, I think the kind of person that have a very solid procedural knowledge is more likely to do very well.

 

[Chubby]

You are winged, I am not, so, Ill defer to your opinion as far as what makes a good pilot. However, I think the kind of person that have a very solid procedural knowledge is more likely to do very well.

You're right with the fact that they're more likely to do well with a solid procedural background, but it still comes down to whether or not they can translate that book knowledge into the stick and rudder "monkey skills" of flying the plane.

 

[Gatordev]

You're right with the fact that they're more likely to do well with a solid procedural background, but it still comes down to whether or not they can translate that book knowledge into the stick and rudder "monkey skills" of flying the plane.

Concur. I have a sea story, but it's still too soon.

 

[FLY_USMC]

Alot of dudes got jets lately, cause alot of really really qualified marines showed up at the same time. We are talking about dudes that were the top of their class Navy Airforce Marines combined. We are talking about dudes that had Notes Warnings and Cautions, word for word, memorised, before they showed up to their first flight.

The reason the Marine Corps is graduating Commodore's List graduate's like it's going out of style here at Vance is because someone wisened up and started sending frigain rock stars for pilots here. Are all of them, no. But let's see if we see a trend, 4 weeks back, Commodore's List, 1400 hour bush pilot, 2 weeks back, 1200 hour Corporate guy or something like that. And then there's some guy over in the T-37 side that gets more E's than G's in his frigain second block of flying, I think they are doing something right with the voluntold's here at Vance? Is going to Vance for jets bad gouge? Um, not sure, if you're Navy, that might be right, I haven't seen anyone Navy get a jet out of here in a long time. As for the Marine Corps? I wouldn't be so quick to comment.

You're right with the fact that they're more likely to do well with a solid procedural background, but it still comes down to whether or not they can translate that book knowledge into the stick and rudder "monkey skills" of flying the plane.

I concur, I am now convinced that book knowledge and "monkey skills" are two very separate entities.

 

[NavyLonghorn]

I guess all Im saying is every dude I knew in primary that was a rock star on the stick was a rock star on the procedures aswell. And conversly I never personally saw anyone who had rock solid knowledge struggle.

 

[nocal80]

According to the dudes in the know at Vance, the Marines and Navy were not compared for NSS purposes.

You are winged, I am not, so, Ill defer to your opinion as far as what makes a good pilot. However, I think the kind of person that have a very solid procedural knowledge is more likely to do very well.

I know Marines and Navy are not compared by NSS for selection, but you said only Marines were used to calculate the NSS. Probably just a misunderstanding. I don't want to go into how the NSS is calculated, but you need a large sample to draw from and this includes all Marine and Navy SNA's. So to get your score, say a 52, you are compared to x number of SNA's that were ahead of you, Marine and Navy. But once you have your score, your 52 is only compared to what the other Marines in your selection scored, not what Navy guys scored.

You need to know your procedures cold, no doubt about it. But some guys with inferior systems and procedural knowledge will do well just because they can fly. There are also a lot of guys who have excellent procedural knowledge but aren't great sticks. I knew a lot of guys like this and their dedication and professionalism in this area went a long way on grades and making sure they made it through flight school.

 

[NavyLonghorn]

So basically, if thats the way it works, all the Navy kids are getting clobbered by the super qualified marines. Interesting.