The Tomcat Legacy; 35+ years from Fleet Air Defender to Recce to Precision Strike

[chiplee]

A+ all the way baby, hehe, now that I've actually flown it. Big F little a is what they say but this whole topic seems kinda silly for a Marine to discuss. I don't know, when was the last air to air kill by a Marine? Korea? unless you count that one in Vietnam but that guy ran out of gas. We, including the navy guys, would be better off discussing the Hornet as a bombing platform, where it's unsurpassed, 'cause that's all you'll ever do. Don't get me wrong, be the best you can be air to air but that's more for bragging rights in the club these days. Hope it changes.

 

[kevin]

hope it changes, indeed. but that's me, a traditionalist who's in love with ww2, talking. the next time two serious air powers meet over the battle field might be uav's fighting each other...a dark day for aviation, imho. but as always, a man can dream.

 

[ben]

ok, call me stupid but what the heck does "imho" mean? I see it a lot on airwarriors and one other forum, and I really have no idea what it means. Sorry I'm not up to speed on the new internet lingo.

 

[NuSnake]

im old school too man.....me and internet lingo dont get along to well, i always get confused with all those letters that are jumbled together......hahaha i guess ive got some work to do with acronyms

 

[jmantel02]

Despite the **** you see in the movies and on Discovery channel specials, the F-14 is a poor-performing, lumbering, aerial version of the Ford F-150. It's ramp weight is about 54,000 pounds and when loading with its usual stores, that weight goes up to nearly 70,000 lbs. In comparison, an F-15 (which the air force designed for the sole purpose of keeping congress from forcing them to adopt the F-14 just as they forced them to take on the F-4 fifteen years earlier)weighs a little more than half that. The aerodynamic benefits of the variable geometry wing are far outweighed by the incredible weight that this system adds. A hard, high-g turn while in combat bleeds energy off so quickly that it quicly turns into a target. The tomcat has been much more effective in its ground attack role that it would have been in a cold war dogfight with a Mig 29.

 

[DBLang]

Not that I am qualified to say anything but...

the F-14 wasn't designed to dogfight with Mig-29s

 

[kevin]

well, poor-performing i dont think so....it was fast and accelerates well. but lumbering for turning, agreed. being an old, big plane it's not going to turn well with the little guys. but there is the energy fight, that even an f15, im guessing, would have to use to beat a hornet. after seeing that red october video of the 18 vs mig29 engagements, i definitely have a new respect for that plane. turns almost like a hornet and puts on knots like an f15. there is another russian fighter that makes all of them look bad, however....oops, no i can't go there- ive been banned.

 

[vegita1220]

F-14s were designed to ripple off Phoenix missiles to kill cruise missiles. Let's see the MiG or Sukhois try that.

As for dogfighting...I don't believe I'm qualified to speak on the matter and I honestly don't know of course.

But scuttlebutt says the Tom is a great bomber.

 

[kevin]

it's absolutely hilarious now that most are afraid to speak on the "aviation knowledge" topic for fear of corky or hornetdvr or any other experts jumping all over those comments. really, who gives a "flying" fuk.
wait, here's my new expert opinion.....i think the future of dogfighting is derigables. those things can turn on a dime. but the pilots only get a half-wing pinned on them. acceleration characteristics arent the greatest. oh well.

"F-14s were designed to ripple off Phoenix missiles to kill cruise missiles. Let's see the MiG or Sukhois try that." - they can still throw rocks at it (dont forget jaerose's air defense system).

"But scuttlebutt says the Tom is a great bomber." - who's tom?

 

[vegita1220]

Tom is my friend. He can run at Mach 2.3 and carries these really big metal things that go boom when you hit them too hard. But he can only fly when he sticks in his special battery called a "pie-lut." He's a real special guy.

And unfortunately kev, jaeroses's air defense system wouldn't work at sea unless you modify boomer submarines to launch ppl into the air. Hmm...

And it's not that I'm afraid, I've just never actually seen a Tomcat turning and burning in a real dogfight before. At least for the Hornet I've seen the stuff the Blues do.

 

[paikea]

if real air to air combat engagements EVER occur again, with whom and what planes do u think the NAVY will fly against and with what plane?

Back to the T VS H fight. The tomcat by far makes for a better bomber than the hornet. Go ahead hornetdrvr and corky, flame away, but the tomcat is fast (mach 2.4), carries smart weapons, and has long range abilities. but i dont remember if it was on this forum or the other i'm jumpin on, i heard someone say the tomcat is like a really powerful muscle car. its strong but parts are scarce and maintaining it is a bliznazatch, the hornet is like a new age rice rocket. parts are everywhere but they really just dont stack up. my two cents i'm out.

 

[Ryoukai]

Dirigibles you say....good sir, I do like the way you think. I say, let's get together and propose this great and as of yet untapped power to the powers that be. I mean, pfft, "airplanes"...yeah, like that's ever going to take off.

 

[chiplee]

Originally posted by lowslow_n_dumb
The tomcat by far makes for a better bomber than the hornet.

good lord? I'm just dumb founded. I'll assume that was just a blatant attempt to get someone fired up. Problem is it's so ridiculously wrong that no one will give it as much time as I did, and I gave it too much.

 

[Jedj]

nothing(in the US inventory)can beat a hornet in a high alpha, slowspeed fight(such as the flats). pilot skill being equal of course. please correct me if im wrong.

 

[vegita1220]

I'm curious though, I've heard for example that the RIO helps big time in target acquisition and study prior to the mission since the pilot can focus on navigation rather than target study. I've also heard that 14's can also Fast-FAC to call in Hornets which is also useful I'm sure. I've also heard D-TARPS is the only way the Navy can get near real time intel out to its battle groups in a timely manner. I've also heard that the Tomcat is big, fast, and carries a heavier bombload over a longer distance.

That said, I've also heard that the Tomcat can't shoot standoff weapons relying entirely on LGBs. I'm also wondering personally if either the Hornet or Super Hornet is capable of carrying the Deep Throat bunker buster over a decent distance. I also remember that Tomcats were doing FAC for Hornets in Kosovo b/c the LANTIRN was better than the Nitehawk the Hornet had at that time. I'm pretty sure the Hornet or Super Hornet's got a better targeting pod but it's name slips my mind at the moment, sorry.

But I hear lots of things.