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The SHOW: Airlines still a "good gig"??
- Thread starter A4sForever
- Start date
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Well, duh! Airline pilot, right?
The last time I flew domestically in Australia (PER/PHE return), QANTAS did exactly that on their aircraft.
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Obviously.
What’s that in Stanley Nickles?
I think it's only a matter of time before the traveling public figures out the business relationships between the main brands and their regionals- and then "Karen" goes nuts about it. As for how long that time takes, given the traveling public's SA and how much they even care, I think it could be next week just as easily as a long time from now.
Maybe, maybe not. My assumption is nobody cares who doesn’t work in aviation.
Did you know that the company that makes Coca-cola and the company that bottles Coca-cola are two different corporate entities with different business goals that are sometimes at odds with one another? Funny, and kind of inventive (it keeps them both honest about lowering their costs), but likewise, I bet the general public would not care, even if they bothered to find out. It’s too inside baseball to affect them. Ditto, the regional vs mainline business relationships.
BT BT
Alternative analysis: While “seniority is everything” today, what would it look like if US airlines radically changed that pilot seniority model, as a mechanism to bring on new pilots to mitigate the pilot walkouts, sickouts, or shortages? Historically, it’s a tool that labor management in other industries have used to undercut a labor force that isn’t complying with management’s wishes. It may not be so far fetched to envision how the airlines could try to manipulate their pilot unions - esp if the airlines feel they have top cover in Congress and the White House over the issue of vaccines.
American Airlines cancels 1,400 flights due to staff shortages, bad weather
USA-AIRLINES/AMERICAN AIRLINES (UPDATE 1):UPDATE 1-American Airlines cancels 1,400 flights due to staff shortages, bad weather
Are you talking about a wholesale disruption of organized labor at the airlines? Unlikely to happen, even as stacked against unions as the RLA is. A national seniority list? Also very unlikely.
The RLA is designed to encourage nearly endless negotiations. Airlines don't have to get rid of their unions; they have deeper pockets than the unions and can generally negotiate for years while waiting for the most advantageous time to update working rules and compensation. Getting released for self-help is not impossible, it's just a very onerous process. If unions (or union members acting on their own) do anything that even hints of unsanctioned job action prior to that release, the union can be crushed in a lawsuit.
It's why you don't hear about sickouts or walkouts very often here in the US compared to the European airlines. They're illegal and the union will run out of money very quickly if they lose a lawsuit over them. Why sign a contract quickly if you can play for time, wait for an economic downturn or a favorable labor market (from management's perspective), and the whole time the work groups are taking a pay cut in real dollars, even if you pay out retro.
The RLA is designed to encourage nearly endless negotiations. Airlines don't have to get rid of their unions; they have deeper pockets than the unions and can generally negotiate for years while waiting for the most advantageous time to update working rules and compensation. Getting released for self-help is not impossible, it's just a very onerous process. If unions (or union members acting on their own) do anything that even hints of unsanctioned job action prior to that release, the union can be crushed in a lawsuit.
It's why you don't hear about sickouts or walkouts very often here in the US compared to the European airlines. They're illegal and the union will run out of money very quickly if they lose a lawsuit over them. Why sign a contract quickly if you can play for time, wait for an economic downturn or a favorable labor market (from management's perspective), and the whole time the work groups are taking a pay cut in real dollars, even if you pay out retro.
Copy all. I’m not suggesting anything other than continuation of the status quo. That is the easy answer and most likely outcome of course. As intel, we are paid to consider unlikely but high impact scenarios, however, and to not rule anything out unless/until it’s been definitively ruled out. I’m not familiar with airline unions but you guys are. For example: What would have to happen first in order for a US airline to dictate “if you don’t get vaxxed your seniority spot drops in favor of someone who complied”? Assumption: At some point these airlines and/or policymakers are not going to let the airlines fail or stop running. I’m not saying this will happen, just might be a useful analytic method to consider for airline industry watchers.
The airline would have to find a way to cancel their pilot contract. Not going to happen, especially under the RLA.
The RLA would have to be repealed for that, and the alternative to the RLA is the NLRA (I think?). Our contracts become amendable on the end date. There's no provision to strike as soon as the amendable date arrives.
NLRA governed contracts have a hard end date; negotiations happen well prior to that end date. The most recent GM strike started the day that the contract ended.
Repealing the RLA would go back to the days where labor unions could paralyze infrastructure to get what they want and management could replace work groups wholesale with scabs as soon as they wanted to get a cheaper contract. This usually ended with someone breaking open someone else's' head with a pickaxe and then a contract would get signed.
It would be interesting, for sure, but it's not in the US Govt's (notice I didn't say public's) interest for that to happen.
NLRA governed contracts have a hard end date; negotiations happen well prior to that end date. The most recent GM strike started the day that the contract ended.
Repealing the RLA would go back to the days where labor unions could paralyze infrastructure to get what they want and management could replace work groups wholesale with scabs as soon as they wanted to get a cheaper contract. This usually ended with someone breaking open someone else's' head with a pickaxe and then a contract would get signed.
It would be interesting, for sure, but it's not in the US Govt's (notice I didn't say public's) interest for that to happen.
‘Deja vu all over again’: American Airlines cancels over 2,000 flights in weekend chaos
Mark Granberry and his wife Charla had a Caribbean getaway planned to celebrate her recent retirement. Instead of a beach vacation in Turks and Caicos, the...
www.dallasnews.com
A paywall. That's what's going on.What’s going on here?‘Deja vu all over again’: American Airlines cancels over 2,000 flights in weekend chaos
Mark Granberry and his wife Charla had a Caribbean getaway planned to celebrate her recent retirement. Instead of a beach vacation in Turks and Caicos, the...www.dallasnews.com