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The SHOW: Airlines still a "good gig"??

Jim123

DD-214 in hand and I'm gonna party like it's 1998
pilot
It just got removed in the last few minutes, but there was a great Craiglist post in Denver selling the engine cowling for $9,999.
Random Craigslist people in their parents' basement, clicking on ask the seller a question, "will this fit my 1988 vw jetta?"
 

wink

VS NFO. Blue and Gold Officer
None
Super Moderator
Contributor
Can we please amend ATC training and procedures to drop the queries for souls on board? They have no problem calling the company when they want to violate someone. They can call the company and get souls on board in minutes. I am not even sure of the point of fuel on board. Does the fire department have a chart. X lbs fuel makes y size fire ball? Does it matter when there are so many variables in the actual crash? Isn't it enough to know it is a B777 going to HNL? That means lots of gas. For God's sake, leave the crew alone.
 

FinkUFreaky

Well-Known Member
pilot
Can we please amend ATC training and procedures to drop the queries for souls on board? They have no problem calling the company when they want to violate someone. They can call the company and get souls on board in minutes. I am not even sure of the point of fuel on board. Does the fire department have a chart. X lbs fuel makes y size fire ball? Does it matter when there are so many variables in the actual crash? Isn't it enough to know it is a B777 going to HNL? That means lots of gas. For God's sake, leave the crew alone.
I totally agree with you. Fuel on board to me seems like a silly fucking check to your ETE (ie they can't clear you to somewhere that will take 0+20 if you report 0+15 fuel. I agree they could get souls onboard from calling the company, but I am surprised it wasn't easy to answer. I'll throw it out there, never flown for the regionals or the big guys. But I would have guessed you walk on the plane with a kneeboard card that includes souls on board? Updated by push time? I agree it's a silly question for them to ask though.
 

scoolbubba

Well-Known Member
pilot
Contributor
I always wondered what they used souls and gas for. Is one the tie breaker between two emergency aircraft? Is it so they know when to stop counting jawbone fragments at the impact crater? Seems like a holdover from the way-back machine, much like how holding still has recommended reports (that no one ever gives because we actually have radar coverage over the US nowadays) in the FIH and AIM.
 

Treetop Flyer

Well-Known Member
pilot
I totally agree with you. Fuel on board to me seems like a silly fucking check to your ETE (ie they can't clear you to somewhere that will take 0+20 if you report 0+15 fuel. I agree they could get souls onboard from calling the company, but I am surprised it wasn't easy to answer. I'll throw it out there, never flown for the regionals or the big guys. But I would have guessed you walk on the plane with a kneeboard card that includes souls on board? Updated by push time? I agree it's a silly question for them to ask though.
Kneeboard. Haha
 

FinkUFreaky

Well-Known Member
pilot
I always wondered what they used souls and gas for. Is one the tie breaker between two emergency aircraft? Is it so they know when to stop counting jawbone fragments at the impact crater? Seems like a holdover from the way-back machine, much like how holding still has recommended reports (that no one ever gives because we actually have radar coverage over the US nowadays) in the FIH and AIM.
One of the biggest things I'll harp on students on... Their FTI says to report established in holding, and to request an EFC if not given one. Never fucking happens flight-side (not in the Pensacola TRACON at least. They'll tell you "report when ready to commence approach".) It's a never ending struggle telling them not to disregard their FTI, but please disregard your FTI. Oh, and it will only take 5 years to fix it IF the willpower was there to do so. They told you when they wanted to hear from you next......
 

FrankTheTank

Professional Pot Stirrer
pilot
One of the biggest things I'll harp on students on... Their FTI says to report established in holding, and to request an EFC if not given one. Never fucking happens flight-side (not in the Pensacola TRACON at least. They'll tell you "report when ready to commence approach".) It's a never ending struggle telling them not to disregard their FTI, but please disregard your FTI. Oh, and it will only take 5 years to fix it IF the willpower was there to do so. They told you when they wanted to hear from you next......
Actually it’s stupid but it is a required call. We just had this discussion in recurrent. Bottom line, shut up and color. Don’t get violated for breaking a stupid FAR.
 

Jim123

DD-214 in hand and I'm gonna party like it's 1998
pilot
Squawking 7700, if you're already in comms and radar contact, is another one that is outdated. You'll light up every air traffic control radar scope for miles around with a super annoying buzzer that each individual controller has to cancel over and over again. That's pretty counterproductive to the emergency.

But then my job is to show up on time with a clean shirt and fly the airplane (shut up and color) not to argue the training guys and the FAA about what's dumb.
 

Python1287

Well-Known Member
pilot
Contributor
One of the biggest things I'll harp on students on... Their FTI says to report established in holding, and to request an EFC if not given one. Never fucking happens flight-side (not in the Pensacola TRACON at least. They'll tell you "report when ready to commence approach".) It's a never ending struggle telling them not to disregard their FTI, but please disregard your FTI. Oh, and it will only take 5 years to fix it IF the willpower was there to do so. They told you when they wanted to hear from you next......
Not just FTI, the FARs.
 

FinkUFreaky

Well-Known Member
pilot
I would love to see this happen on DEN Center when everyone who diverted is making a mad dash to all the arrival gates and is stacked up 10 apiece at each STAR fix. Center would lose. their. shit. if everyone reported established in the hold.
Exactly my point lmao. When there are 5 legit, and one air force training command in the same local area, ATC is telling us when they next want to hear from us. If I were an airline guy, I'd report established. When I'm one out of 5 military aircraft holding at SQWID at KMOB "for training," won't, if I were told to report when ready to commence the approach. I actually tell my students to just ask their instructor before reporting; being recently flight-side I would rip the PCL from their thumb when they tried to do it.

Mobile Approach does not want to give legit holding clearances to 75 planes per hour. Which is why they don't. They don't give me an EFC, they tell me to report when ready to commence the approach, that's what I do.

BONUS note: Sherman field doesn't give lost comm instructions during PARS! Probably a FAR.AIM violation. But they only do like 300 per day.
 
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HAL Pilot

Well-Known Member
None
Contributor
They don't give me an EFC, they tell me to report when ready to commence the approach, that's what I do.
The EFC time is also when you are expected to commence your approach if you go lost comms. I ask for it solely for that reason - having once gone lost comms in IFR while holding at GCN VOR flying a Twin Otter in a non-radar environment..
 

Gatordev

Well-Known Member
pilot
Site Admin
Contributor
BONUS note: Sherman field doesn't give lost comm instructions during PARS! Probably a FAR.AIM violation. But they only do like 300 per day.
It's probably in the Base Ops Manual (and maybe a note in the AFD). It's not uncommon to put those in a local publication in order to reduce comms. Except in an emergency, the only people shooting the approach are DoD (or fullfilling a contract for DoD) and have a PPR or reason to be there, so there's not really a lot of concern about Part 91.

I'm guessing it's the same for Part 121, but for Part 135, you can't shoot an approach you haven't been trained for, so again, if a contract DoD flight is coming in there, they're probably shooting the RNAV or ILS anyway and don't care about GCA regs.
 
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