<--- This guy would take E2/C2 in a heartbeat, and I know I'm not the only one at Vt-31 who feels that way. . .
-
Please take a moment and update your account profile. If you have an updated account profile with basic information on why you are on Air Warriors it will help other people respond to your posts. How do you update your profile you ask?
Go here:
Edit Account Details and Profile
Tailhook?
- Thread starter FreeFallin80
- Start date
I would think that everyone more or less has the ability to fly the E-2 or C-2 if they made it to the cut. So, why not make the first step simply asking who wants to fly E-2/C-2? It may not be a whole lot of bodies but probably just enough to cover the 1 or 2 slots required each class. That way, hopefully everyone gets what they want.
I can't speak directly for E2/C2 boards but have provided much input on boards in this spirit..
If you show your "so hard a cat couldn't scratch it" WOOD for flying Hummers or CODS, I am superlativelly sure it would have an enormous impact in the board selection process.
If a dude or chick wanted prowlers, noone else in the class did, the slot was there, the boat grades were there and/or the right higherups shake hands (if something was amiss above) it can and did happen. I won't tell where the majic happens.
Being labeled an ass-munch (there are a miriad of methods for achieving this) makes people very rigid in the selection process. Bottom line, short of being labeled gay by classmates or much worse instructors... RUSH! (fraternity sometimes a sorority). Don't be a clown, know your crap and show up ready to absorb and execute whatever your IP took an hour out of his life to brief you on, get better every flight, every pass, every engagement.
It is a delicate process, but good training for the delicate business of landing, living and fighting on/off/in/around and WITH big grey floating prisons for aviation overachievers. Much like the airlines (where they look at prospects of three day trips with you), be the dude that someone wouldn't mind having as a roomate/wingman/co-pilot for one year nine months and eleven days (give or take a day or two) the IPs have in sea time.
If you show your "so hard a cat couldn't scratch it" WOOD for flying Hummers or CODS, I am superlativelly sure it would have an enormous impact in the board selection process.
If a dude or chick wanted prowlers, noone else in the class did, the slot was there, the boat grades were there and/or the right higherups shake hands (if something was amiss above) it can and did happen. I won't tell where the majic happens.
Being labeled an ass-munch (there are a miriad of methods for achieving this) makes people very rigid in the selection process. Bottom line, short of being labeled gay by classmates or much worse instructors... RUSH! (fraternity sometimes a sorority). Don't be a clown, know your crap and show up ready to absorb and execute whatever your IP took an hour out of his life to brief you on, get better every flight, every pass, every engagement.
It is a delicate process, but good training for the delicate business of landing, living and fighting on/off/in/around and WITH big grey floating prisons for aviation overachievers. Much like the airlines (where they look at prospects of three day trips with you), be the dude that someone wouldn't mind having as a roomate/wingman/co-pilot for one year nine months and eleven days (give or take a day or two) the IPs have in sea time.
I'll add my 2 cents to the topic. I am the first non-volunteer to be selected for the program. My lack of the "why me" response or negative attitude endeared me to higher ups in my squadron, so questions I have been asking have been answered as best as possible so I can try to answer questions asked of me from people behind me. I had a slight kick to the junk with how I was told I got selected. I was sitting in ONAV ground school (first block of phase II for us) in the sim building when the intercom told me to see the ODO immediatly. When I got to the desk and saw the CO standing there, my first comment to him was "damn it, I was hoping I was in trouble." Later in the conversation I told him it was pretty screwed to make me get up early, then sit through 3 hours of a painfully boring class before pulling me out to tell me. He laughed and apologized, promising anyone from now on will be told in a more humane way.
Ok, now for the things I know for sure. The first groups of 4, 1 volunteer, and the other 3 selected, was nss based (besides the volunteer). Each squadron had one class in the right place in the syllabus to be selected, so it was 2 per class. From now on, there will be 1-2 from every class because the requirements will be set at the beginning of each fiscal year. If you volunteer, you will get it, no questions asked. The community would rather have people who want to be there then people forced to be there. This applies out of primary still, tell someone you want e2c2s and if you qualify, you'll get tailhook with the understanding you're going e2c2s and will not be changed to jets for any reason. It just so happened for us that they needed 4 for fy08, and the last boat of the year is Aug, so all 4 had to be ready to go to the boat. In my case, I had a 48nss, the next guy had a 49. Mine came from crappy instrument grades combined with equally high front seat grades, the other guy was pretty much straight across the board. I've been told there were plenty of meetings about what they want in a jet pilot versus an e2c2 pilot, but in the end the time crunch necessitated a decision and they used nss. The decision makers are trying to hammer out criteria for a selection board, so hopefully that will work out. Another thing, my nss would have put me at number 1 or 2 in classes in front of me and behind me, but they needed people to go the the boat. The CO also told me he couldn't justify pulling someone out of phase II just because my grades were higher, and that eventually this board for selection will use a quality spread approach. There are no "drafts" the only reason it was one class per squadron is because no one knew how the process was going to work until the last minute. Kingsville won't be selecting their first e2c2 transitions until the next fy as I understand it, so Meridian is trying to forge the final product for selection criteria at the moment. The squadrons here are watching for people to pull strategic med downs or other things of that nature, and if they see it the person who does it will suffer. Hopefully no one would do that and screw a buddy over, but just in case. Our commodore told us when we checked in, "I'm not going to take the number 1 guy, other then that, it could be anyone" so if you're that worried, be number one in your class and you're safe.
That's the stuff that is fact, now rumors: It looks like it will be a PCS move to Corpus, which sadly means no per diem. Good for some people, I was disappointed but that's just me. The syllabus looks to be 1-2 months long, including the weather days factored in and such, but no one here knows for sure. At the moment we're being told we'll start up with the next class for advanced, not sit in a pool waiting. The plan of someone a lot higher up then me is a quick stint in Corpus, then out to the rag to sit in a pool in Norfolk. Finally, there is talk of getting the e2c2 selectees their wings after the boat to set them apart a little bit from the studs straight out of primary. Not meant to be insulting, but 150+ hours of jet time training to be a single seat pilot and landing on the boat should set us apart a little bit. This won't happy in the near future, but the idea has a lot of support here, so maybe it will become a reality down the road, but don't hold your breath.
Ok, now for the prik-ish part of my rant:
SNA 2007 "Yes I hope they figure out a way not to have drafts. However, keep in mind that there are people out there that want E2/C2, and there are also students that did not get their first choice out of primary that would take those slots in a heartbeat."
If you had the grades out of primary and told anyone you wanted e2c2s, you'd have gotten it, sorry it's harsh dude, but that's the way it is. If you didn't get it, it's because you didn't make the cut, pretty simple. Any volunteers are getting it, even out of primary, and that won't change because the community would rather have people who want to be there then people who are forced to be.
One of the best things I've heard in a while came from a former e2 pilot in my squadron when he was telling me about his experience with selections and later having to explain to a parent how it works. To paraphrase: "No one owes you (a Navy pilot) anything, take what you get and be enjoy it and there will always be an upside you didn't see once you get into the aircraft" Another gem, this time from CO "When we gave people only what they wanted to fly, there were no Marine Prowler pilots." There will be ups and downs no matter what, so go with it and if you don't like it, work hard and when the time comes, put in a packet to transfer communities. I hear the swo community is always looking for new people. Anyone in the pipeline right now or in the future should talk to the e2c2 pilots in their squdrons and learn about the community. Out of primary, e2c2 was dead last on my dream sheet, right after begging the Marine Corps to let me fly anything but an e2 for them. (You think I'm kidding...) Now, after the things I have learned, I'd have put e2c2s second on my list. It's amazing what a little knowledge can do to change your prejudice of something. Other then the idea of seeing tarantulas crawling around in Texas (I F%$#&ng hate spiders) I'm pretty excited about the process now. The best thing about this whole situation, so far has been getting to tell a not-so-pleasant sim instructor "What are you going to do, send me props?" after an undeserved bitch out on my first cq sim.
Sorry this is long, hopefully it will help a few people or answer some questions. If you want to know more, PM me, but this is about all I know. I'll update as I go through and try to turn some rumors into truths.
Ok, now for the things I know for sure. The first groups of 4, 1 volunteer, and the other 3 selected, was nss based (besides the volunteer). Each squadron had one class in the right place in the syllabus to be selected, so it was 2 per class. From now on, there will be 1-2 from every class because the requirements will be set at the beginning of each fiscal year. If you volunteer, you will get it, no questions asked. The community would rather have people who want to be there then people forced to be there. This applies out of primary still, tell someone you want e2c2s and if you qualify, you'll get tailhook with the understanding you're going e2c2s and will not be changed to jets for any reason. It just so happened for us that they needed 4 for fy08, and the last boat of the year is Aug, so all 4 had to be ready to go to the boat. In my case, I had a 48nss, the next guy had a 49. Mine came from crappy instrument grades combined with equally high front seat grades, the other guy was pretty much straight across the board. I've been told there were plenty of meetings about what they want in a jet pilot versus an e2c2 pilot, but in the end the time crunch necessitated a decision and they used nss. The decision makers are trying to hammer out criteria for a selection board, so hopefully that will work out. Another thing, my nss would have put me at number 1 or 2 in classes in front of me and behind me, but they needed people to go the the boat. The CO also told me he couldn't justify pulling someone out of phase II just because my grades were higher, and that eventually this board for selection will use a quality spread approach. There are no "drafts" the only reason it was one class per squadron is because no one knew how the process was going to work until the last minute. Kingsville won't be selecting their first e2c2 transitions until the next fy as I understand it, so Meridian is trying to forge the final product for selection criteria at the moment. The squadrons here are watching for people to pull strategic med downs or other things of that nature, and if they see it the person who does it will suffer. Hopefully no one would do that and screw a buddy over, but just in case. Our commodore told us when we checked in, "I'm not going to take the number 1 guy, other then that, it could be anyone" so if you're that worried, be number one in your class and you're safe.
That's the stuff that is fact, now rumors: It looks like it will be a PCS move to Corpus, which sadly means no per diem. Good for some people, I was disappointed but that's just me. The syllabus looks to be 1-2 months long, including the weather days factored in and such, but no one here knows for sure. At the moment we're being told we'll start up with the next class for advanced, not sit in a pool waiting. The plan of someone a lot higher up then me is a quick stint in Corpus, then out to the rag to sit in a pool in Norfolk. Finally, there is talk of getting the e2c2 selectees their wings after the boat to set them apart a little bit from the studs straight out of primary. Not meant to be insulting, but 150+ hours of jet time training to be a single seat pilot and landing on the boat should set us apart a little bit. This won't happy in the near future, but the idea has a lot of support here, so maybe it will become a reality down the road, but don't hold your breath.
Ok, now for the prik-ish part of my rant:
SNA 2007 "Yes I hope they figure out a way not to have drafts. However, keep in mind that there are people out there that want E2/C2, and there are also students that did not get their first choice out of primary that would take those slots in a heartbeat."
If you had the grades out of primary and told anyone you wanted e2c2s, you'd have gotten it, sorry it's harsh dude, but that's the way it is. If you didn't get it, it's because you didn't make the cut, pretty simple. Any volunteers are getting it, even out of primary, and that won't change because the community would rather have people who want to be there then people who are forced to be.
One of the best things I've heard in a while came from a former e2 pilot in my squadron when he was telling me about his experience with selections and later having to explain to a parent how it works. To paraphrase: "No one owes you (a Navy pilot) anything, take what you get and be enjoy it and there will always be an upside you didn't see once you get into the aircraft" Another gem, this time from CO "When we gave people only what they wanted to fly, there were no Marine Prowler pilots." There will be ups and downs no matter what, so go with it and if you don't like it, work hard and when the time comes, put in a packet to transfer communities. I hear the swo community is always looking for new people. Anyone in the pipeline right now or in the future should talk to the e2c2 pilots in their squdrons and learn about the community. Out of primary, e2c2 was dead last on my dream sheet, right after begging the Marine Corps to let me fly anything but an e2 for them. (You think I'm kidding...) Now, after the things I have learned, I'd have put e2c2s second on my list. It's amazing what a little knowledge can do to change your prejudice of something. Other then the idea of seeing tarantulas crawling around in Texas (I F%$#&ng hate spiders) I'm pretty excited about the process now. The best thing about this whole situation, so far has been getting to tell a not-so-pleasant sim instructor "What are you going to do, send me props?" after an undeserved bitch out on my first cq sim.
Sorry this is long, hopefully it will help a few people or answer some questions. If you want to know more, PM me, but this is about all I know. I'll update as I go through and try to turn some rumors into truths.
There has been 2 selection boards in my squadron for the E2/C2 already in the last month for the AUG boat, so it is happening here.
Is this a new development? Because it wasn't an option in May when I finished Primary with a 60.
Ok, yes I got the TH slot. The point I was trying to make was that I don't believe in people publicly bitching about any community that they were selected for. Like many others I would like to fly the hornet, but if I don't get that no one but my closest friends will know of my dissapointment. I will carry on and continue to be the best damn pilot I can be. Lets say your first choice was something other than jets: Helos P-3s etc. Then you show up to your new command all motivated and ready to go and you are surrounded by bitter mofos complaining and showing much dissapointment about what they are flying. In that atmosphere your motivation would probably drop a bit, and I view it as disrespectful to those who want to be there.
Also I may have some buddies who would be happy to fly anything tailhook. So if you have an idea of who they should approach about that E2/C2 volunteer deal more info would be appreciated. E2/C2s are not allowed on the primary selection card so it sounds like the kind of thing where the right guys have to shake hands.
I finished primary a year ago and selected jets, not tailhook, so I don't know who to talk to. From what I understand from higher ups here, if someone expresses a desire to volunteer for the e2c2 pipeline, the primary decision makers have been told to watch out for them and put that into the comments section on selection sheets. Still goes through the sanity check of "should this person fly something tailhook" but anyone who wants the e2c2 saves the jet squadron COs from having to make a sometimes difficult decision, so they are all for it.
PropAddict- It's not new, nss is one factor for selection and not knowing anything about you, I won't speculate on your situation. I have a friend who volunteered and went into the e2c2 pipeline directly from primary April of this year, I'll get him to add some comments on here if I can. I know when I selected from primary, I had a 61, and a guy with a 64 in VT-2 with me had jets first and didn't get it, but I did.
JoshDavid- Thanks, I had been told differently so it's good to know, we were under the impression the 4 of us were the only ones going jets to props this fiscal year. Were they selected after phase I, or were they phase II guys who weren't doing so well?
I think there were MAYBE two dudes who selected jet and wound up in the TH deal but I am not sure. The boards were held after mid FCLP I think, nobody went into anything phase II AFAIK.
There HAVE been two selections in Kingsville, and they WERE done during mid stage bounce. Both selections came from VT-22 and there were two studs in each class. In each of the two selections, the result was one jet and one E2/C2. So two total advanced strike, and two total E2/C2 transitions to this point down here.
The selections came from a board which was held the same day as the selection. On the board, three instructors, preferably representing both communities, talked to each stud, asking what he wanted to fly, and why. The interview, class rank, NSS, grades in each individual stage, stud personality, and I am sure other qualities were taking into account to determine who would go where, and a final recommendation went to the CO for approval. The rest in history.