Stupid questions about Naval Aviation (Pt 2)

[mh53eflyguy]

Stupid Question No. 2 for this thread...

In an effort to CYA (or MY), Since I can't find anything on it, is there anything written anywhere that explicitly says that I cannot fly on my own during A-Pool, API, etc? I was hoping to rent a plane and fly around some for fun. I've been flying for a number of years and I do it for the fun of it (it beats most other habits I've had).

Before you start flaming... I have looked in the 3710, which is where I would have thought I could have found it, but no joy.

 

[HeyJoe]

Stupid Question No. 2 for this thread...

In an effort to CYA (or MY), Since I can't find anything on it, is there anything written anywhere that explicitly says that I cannot fly on my own during A-Pool, API, etc? I was hoping to rent a plane and fly around some for fun. I've been flying for a number of years and I do it for the fun of it (it beats most other habits I've had).

Before you start flaming... I have looked in the 3710, which is where I would have thought I could have found it, but no joy.

It wouldn't be in 3710 at all. Unless your CoC makes it a policy, you free to do as you wish (meeting ORM guidelines and rule of law). One of my running buddies, the esteemed Charles Gittins, now former Marine and showtrial lawyer, had his private's pilot license so we went up together several times during our time in Pensacola.

I also went to a field and paid for a Stearman ride, flew in the A-7 with my former boss at Pentagon when he would visit with FRS Class (he was CO then) and flew my syllabus low level at VT-10 in the A-7 the morning before I flew it in a T-2 with my instructor as well as bagged traps on the Lexington in his quest for 1000 traps and flew an out/in to Cecil for parts. I even went on a long weekend cross-country with an instructor who was looking for students to defray cost of renting a Cessna to go to St Louis.

Only guy I knew who got into trouble for pressing the envelope on the weekends was a guy who was addicted to sport jumping. His number came up and he ended up frying himself on some power lines. However, he recovered and eventually got his wings.

 

[mh53eflyguy]

It wouldn't be in 3710 at all. Unless your CoC makes it a policy, you free to do as you wish (meeting ORM guidelines and rule of law). One of my running buddies, the esteemed Charles Gittins, now former Marine and showtrial lawyer, had his private's pilot license so we went up together several times during our time in Pensacola.

I also went to a field and paid for a Stearman ride, flew in the A-7 with my former boss at Pentagon when he would visit with FRS Class (he was CO then) and flew my syllabus low level at VT-10 in the A-7 the morning before I flew it in a T-2 with my instructor as well as bagged traps on the Lexington in his quest for 1000 traps and flew an out/in to Cecil for parts. I even went on a long weekend cross-country with an instructor who was looking for students to defray cost of renting a Cessna to go to St Louis.

Only guy I knew who got into trouble for pressing the envelope on the weekends was a guy who was addicted to sport jumping. His number came up and he ended up frying himself on some power lines. However, he recovered and eventually got his wings.

That must be why I couldn't find it. My last skipped was in a class-A mishap with a Cessna and wasn't keen on me flying them. I thought he had muttered something in the 3710 about it, that is why I was looking in there.

Thanks!

 

[Gatordev]

When you check in to your various commands (API, VTs, etc), ask at the check-in brief. There is a policy, and if you want to do something, you'll need to fill out an ORM sheet. Guys needed to fill out an ORM sheet even if they owned a boat. It wasn't a big deal and was kept on file, so you didn't have to fill one out every time you want to go.

I can't remember what the policy was at VT-6 (which I think might have been Wing/CNATRA policy) regarding flying, but I think it was okay for studs and certainly was for IPs. There are some prohibited items, though, so make sure you find out. And they will tell you at some point.

 

[Flash]

What's the deal with the Navy's version of the V-22? I tried a bunch of google searches but didn't come up with much. Has this program been canceled? Delayed? Or is it on schedule? What's the deal?

Right now the Navy is not planning on buying the V-22, just the USMC and USAF. There have been proposals to look at it for a COD replacement, but from what I have seen it has not gotten past the idea stage. Bunk should know more about that.

 

[Uncle Fester]

It's been batted around periodically for COD/VOD, but the concept has no patron/advocate in the higher reaches really pushing for it right now (that I know of). No advocate, no programmed money = no program.

It might happen one of these days if someone with stars at NAVAIR starts pushing it, V-22 production and operation by AF and Marines goes smoothly, Bell-Boeing can expand the line, and the C-2B program doesn't get anywhere. That many 'ifs' should give you an idea. I think it's far more likely that the Navy will keep reman'ing/SLEP'ing the C-2 until they finally get around to funding the C-2B (sometime around when the sun runs out of hydrogen) or it completely falls apart.

 

[HooverPilot]

It's been batted around periodically for COD/VOD, but the concept has no patron/advocate in the higher reaches really pushing for it right now (that I know of). No advocate, no programmed money = no program.

It might happen one of these days if someone with stars at NAVAIR starts pushing it, V-22 production and operation by AF and Marines goes smoothly, Bell-Boeing can expand the line, and the C-2B program doesn't get anywhere. That many 'ifs' should give you an idea. I think it's far more likely that the Navy will keep reman'ing/SLEP'ing the C-2 until they finally get around to funding the C-2B (sometime around when the sun runs out of hydrogen) or it completely falls apart.

Thanks for the vote of confidence in the Mighty WAR COD!

It's been a while, Bahrain is hot, hours for everyone and isn't it time for this shit to be over?!

The C-2B was the answer the 2006(?) Analysis of Options came up with for the COD replacement, but we are doing another AoA soon. The V-22 is bantered about quite a bit in the COD replacement question. The Bell-Boeing team sure is pushing it, but it's the 80% solution. That might be enough depending on future procurement dollars and priorities. 2012 starts the official/real deal process of getting a replacement for the COD. Until then, just speculation...

 

[MasterBates]

With the money they are dumping into CODs (by the way, 8 blade CODs.. Just look weird) I would prefer to see the C-2B come along as an incremental improvement.

As an ex helo guy, I don't think the V-22 can do all that the C-2 can in terms of sheer numbers. It's faster and has in flight refueling and opens non-airport options up.

I've never seen the pair side by side, but I think an Osprey "cubes out" before a COD.

 

[HooverPilot]

8 Blade & CNS/ATM. The WonderCOD!

Once a COD get's through PMI-3, it's like you took 10 years off the airframe. Add in the new goodies mentioned above and we've got a rejuvinated airframe. Still not new, but we expect it will last to get us through to the replacement aircraft.

 

[Uncle Fester]

8 Blade & CNS/ATM. The WonderCOD!

Once a COD get's through PMI-3, it's like you took 10 years off the airframe. Add in the new goodies mentioned above and we've got a rejuvinated airframe. Still not new, but we expect it will last to get us through to the replacement aircraft.

I think they were saying something like this in '95 or so. "This will see us through until the CSA comes on-line in 2005."

 

[MasterBates]

Fester, I can't decide if that looks cool or shiteous.

 

[HeyJoe]

That's interesting. What little I have found about the Navy version of the Osprey doesn't mention COD, but instead SAR, special operations, etc. I am sure COD was part of the proposal(s), but no mention of it.

There were 48 HV-22 VOD variants (VOD = Vertical Onboard Delivery) in the V-22 master POA&M, but they always seem to slide outside the 6 year FYDP programming. Sorta like the USMC F/A-18E/F variants that were on many briefs before Marines fixed bayonets and said "not in my Corps" (bigger numbers help tell an overall cheaper unit cost story).

I think they were saying something like this in '95 or so. "This will see us through until the CSA comes on-line in 2005."

There was an aborted attempt to replace S-3 and E-2 that was all but dead by '92. Then there was CSA (Common Support Aircraft) that ramped up in 95 or 96 that was supposed to replace the S-3, E-2 and C-2. That was eventually strangled because contractors couldn't figure out how to make a common mold line work and satisfy internal volume needed for the COD mission yet not suboptimize it for the E-2/S-3 mission.

 

[MasterBates]

Speculation about certain things.. Probably shouldn't be mentioned here.

 

[JSnake]

Forgive me if this has already been asked, but is it possible to take a friend for a spin, as a guest, in a navy jet?

 

[Uncle Fester]

Forgive me if this has already been asked, but is it possible to take a friend for a spin, as a guest, in a navy jet?

If you're Blue Angel #7 and your friend is a VIP. Otherwise, no.