Stupid questions about Naval Aviation (Pt 2)

[MIDNJAC]

This I knew, but it made me think... Which way did the Osprey go? Mostly helo guys populated the community; did they stick with "what they knew" or did they go with fixed wing conventions?

I think phrog mentioned here, or elswhere in another similar thread that the Osprey has maintained the PIC on the right arrangement.

 

[teabag53]

it's an FCP who may or may not be an AHC but probably is. beyond that it comes down to what's on the card. if it requires a maintainer to run the box, or if there's and x of opportunity to be had the FCP may grab another pilot. or if the guy flying the test event would rather have a pilot or a maintenance Marine on that particular day, just depends. what's an ahq?

Apparently, PQM is what I was referring to. I'll stick with my skill set and not talk out my ass about things I think I remember like skid crews.

 

[Mitch]

Apparently, PQM is what I was referring to. I'll stick with my skill set and not talk out my ass about things I think I remember like skid crews.

no sweat. point i was making is whether it's a maintainer, Huey pilot, etc... i've never seen a Cobra launch with less than one ass per seat. there's a softball for ya.

 

[Redhawk]

Organization of the squadron

Hi everyone,

I'm an enlisted infantry Marine trying to learn more about the air wing. I've come to understand that you guys have squadrons that are like a battalion level unit, groups are like regiments, and wings are like divisions. What I haven't been able to figure out is what the internal structure of the squadron is like. Are there smaller units that would be like companies?

Also, how many aircraft are in a typical squadron? And does this vary between different aircraft types (i.e. a 46 squadron vs. a Hornet squadron)?

 

[Uncle Fester]

I've come to understand that you guys have squadrons that are like a battalion level unit, groups are like regiments, and wings are like divisions. What I haven't been able to figure out is what the internal structure of the squadron is like. Are there smaller units that would be like companies?

Also, how many aircraft are in a typical squadron? And does this vary between different aircraft types (i.e. a 46 squadron vs. a Hornet squadron)?

Kinda...'cept, different. You're right that the hierarchies are roughly similar, but there are a lot of differences in what each level does. Plus, Marine Air Wings are organized and run very differently from Carrier Air Wings (CVW). In addition, there are Type Wings. Simply put, a CVW is an operational unit - the Wing trains, deploys and fights as one unit. Type Wings are administrative in nature; as the name suggests, they are responsible for all of a particular type of aircraft, insofar as maintainence, training and development.

A squadron simultaneously belongs to both wings. The CO (O-5) of a squadron reports to the Air Wing Commander ("CAG") operationally and the Type Wing Commodore on administrative matters. That's the carrier-based Navy; the shore-based Patrol and VQ guys have a Wing Commodore but usually only deploy as squadron detachments.

Navy Air doesn't use the term "Group". I'll let the Marines speak to how they use it.

Navy and Marine squadrons are organized pretty similarly: the squadron consists of departments (Operations, Safety, Training, Maintainence, Admin), headed by an O-4. The departments are broken down into divisions (run by an O-3), though usually only Maint is big enough to bother doing that. The Maint divisions are responsible for different parts of the airplane: Avionics, AME/PR (survival equipment and ejection seats), Airframes, Powerplants (engines), Weapons, etc. Bigger divisions will be broken up into shops or branches (run by an O-2).

So you can see, it's pretty much all organized for maintaining the planes and making sure the aircrew are ready to fly.

The number of planes in a squadron varies widely depending on type and mission. E-2 and Prowler squadrons only have four airplanes, while a Hornet squadron will have a dozen or more. Helo squadrons can have anywhere from six to a couple dozen airplanes.

 

[Flash]

Another very rough comparison of Naval Aviation units to Army units would be:

A squadron is about the size of a battalion with an O-5 in command, it is also generally the smallest 'independent' command/unit in Naval Aviation.

A carrier air wing is about the size of brigade with an O-6 in command.

A carrier battle group is about the size of a division with an O-7/8 in command.

Again, these are very rough but an easy way to explain an 'equivalent' of Naval Aviation units to someone who doesn't know the difference between the pointy and the blunt end of an airplane. For a rough equivalent with the USAF replace wing with Group and battle group with Wing.

 

[HeloBubba]

Another very rough comparison of Naval Aviation units to Army units would be:

A squadron is about the size of a battalion with an O-5 in command, it is also generally the smallest 'independent' command/unit in Naval Aviation.

A carrier air wing is about the size of brigade with an O-6 in command.

A carrier battle group is about the size of a division with an O-7/8 in command.

Again, these are very rough but an easy way to explain an 'equivalent' of Naval Aviation units to someone who doesn't know the difference between the pointy and the blunt end of an airplane. For a rough equivalent with the USAF replace wing with Group and battle group with Wing.

Here is a link to help figure out the Army side of things:

http://www.army.mil/info/organization/unitsandcommands/oud/

 

[Cron]

So was API incorporated into AOCS or was it still a separate thing?

 

[eddie]

CAG birds may not be tactical, but they are always the center of attention when you fly anywhere.

Why aren't they tactical? Is there one CAG bird per squadron, or one CAG bird per airwing?

 

[eddie]

Since my post got lost in the move...


Does every squadron have a CAG bird, or just one for the airwing? Why are they "not-tactical?"

 

[a_m]

Each squadron should have a specific bird that is painted in squadron color in a pretty noticeable design. The "non-tactical" aspect is that it is much easier to see them.

Case in point: If you have 2v1 BFM flight, try to get the CAG bird as the 1 and your workload is noticeably easier.

 

[BACONATOR]

So was API incorporated into AOCS or was it still a separate thing?

It is my understanding that all the academics that is now API was incorporated into OCS. Nowadays we do moboards, navy history, naval warfare etc. Back in the day, it was all aviation related stuff.

API was created for ROTC (and maybe academy?) folks.

 

[Cron]

API was created for ROTC (and maybe academy?) folks.

Possibly also Marines/Coast Guard? Unless they had their own things back then (doubt it).

 

[cfam]

Nowadays we do moboards, navy history, naval warfare etc. Back in the day, it was all aviation related stuff.

Oh moboards...what an incredible waste of time

 

[H20man]

Oh moboards...what an incredible waste of time

Nah, they are good for currents, winds, and if your radar is broke dick, but I digress. I never understood the heartburn associated with moboards... they are easy.