Stupid questions about Naval Aviation (Pt 2)

[usmarinemike]

Why are Navy TAFs completely fucking ridiculous compared to civil TAFs? These are right damn next door to each other. One has marginal VFR and summer thunderstorms. The other has an apocalypse.

And what's the effing point of TEMPO lines if they're going to completely fill the time between the BECMG lines.

KPNS 052339Z 0600/0624 14007KT P6SM VCSH SCT025 SCT050 BKN150
FM060800 09006KT P6SM VCSH BKN025 BKN050 BKN150
FM061500 12012KT P6SM BKN025 OVC040
TEMPO 0615/0618 VRB15KT 4SM -TSRA BR OVC030CB
FM061800 14015KT P6SM VCTS BKN025CB OVC040 PROB30 0618/0624 VRB20KT 4SM -TSRA BR OVC030CB

KNPA 0603/0703 10008KT 9999 VCTS SCT010 SCT025CB BKN080 BKN250 QNH2987INS
TEMPO 0603/0609 VRB20G30KT 3200 TSRA BKN010 BKN025CB OVC060
TEMPO 0609/0613 VRB20G30KT 3200 TSRA BKN010 BKN025CB OVC060
BECMG 0613/0615 12012G20KT SCT010 BKN025CB BKN080 OVC150 QNH2989INS
TEMPO 0613/0619 VRB25G40KT 0800 +TSRA BKN005 BKN020CB OVC030
TEMPO 0619/0701 VRB25G40KT 0800 +TSRA BKN005 BKN020CB OVC030
BECMG 0701/0703 12009G15KT 9999 VCSH SCT030 SCT100 BKN250 QNH2990INS AUTOMATED SENSOR METWATCH 0603 TIL 0611 T25/0611Z T30/0620Z

 

[Pags]

Carrier Air Group?

Whoops! Good catch.

 

[Gatordev]

Why are Navy TAFs completely fucking ridiculous compared to civil TAFs? These are right damn next door to each other. One has marginal VFR and summer thunderstorms. The other has an apocalypse.

And what's the effing point of TEMPO lines if they're going to completely fill the time between the BECMG lines.

KPNS 052339Z 0600/0624 14007KT P6SM VCSH SCT025 SCT050 BKN150
FM060800 09006KT P6SM VCSH BKN025 BKN050 BKN150
FM061500 12012KT P6SM BKN025 OVC040
TEMPO 0615/0618 VRB15KT 4SM -TSRA BR OVC030CB
FM061800 14015KT P6SM VCTS BKN025CB OVC040 PROB30 0618/0624 VRB20KT 4SM -TSRA BR OVC030CB

KNPA 0603/0703 10008KT 9999 VCTS SCT010 SCT025CB BKN080 BKN250 QNH2987INS
TEMPO 0603/0609 VRB20G30KT 3200 TSRA BKN010 BKN025CB OVC060
TEMPO 0609/0613 VRB20G30KT 3200 TSRA BKN010 BKN025CB OVC060
BECMG 0613/0615 12012G20KT SCT010 BKN025CB BKN080 OVC150 QNH2989INS
TEMPO 0613/0619 VRB25G40KT 0800 +TSRA BKN005 BKN020CB OVC030
TEMPO 0619/0701 VRB25G40KT 0800 +TSRA BKN005 BKN020CB OVC030
BECMG 0701/0703 12009G15KT 9999 VCSH SCT030 SCT100 BKN250 QNH2990INS AUTOMATED SENSOR METWATCH 0603 TIL 0611 T25/0611Z T30/0620Z

Because one forecast is written by local people who know the weather patterns and the other is written by someone in Norfolk who doesn't even know which state Milton is in (true story). As an IP, we all just looked at the PNS TAF to figure out what was really going to happen.

Don't worry, it's better when you get to the fleet...oh wait, no it's not.

 

[A4sForever]

Carrier Air Group?

Roger that; the term 'changed' to Carrier Air WING sometime in the mid-60s. CAG's originally were named for the BOAT that they were attached to -- i.e., 'ENTERPRISE AIR GROUP' instead of a numerical CAG number.

We used 'air group' and 'air wing' about 50-50 interchangeably when I was in ...

A sample 'YORKTOWN AIR GROUP', circa 1939-40:

 

[GreenLantern330]

Thanks A4s

 

[rondebmar]

"Back in the day" CAG used to stand for Carrier Air Group. Sometime between then and now, it was changed to Carrier Air Wing so it would jive with how the Air Force does things. But everyone still calls it a CAG. In fact, you could say that "CVW" is pronounced "CAG".

Also, the O-6 Commander of the Air Wing (or Group) is called "CAG" as his title. So the CAG runs the CAG. Clear as mud?

For instance, the Commander of CVW-2 is Capt Ross. If you worked for him, you'd call him CAG. And if someone asked you where you worked, you'd probably say "CAG-2."

Additionally, to add to the "back in the day" posts (early to mid 1960s), CAGs were 0-5. As a squadron member with a low "Rocket Number", as was the tradition, I'd frequently be assigned as his wingman if CAG were to fly with our squadron on any given mission/day...

Oh yeah..just remembered...I frequently flew wing on former CNO Tom Haywood when he was CAG-3...when he opted to fly Spads vice Skyhawks! Early 60's, off Saratoga. Then some missions off Yankee Station with CAG-10...forgot his name at the moment...but know he was "Flagged"...read one of his pieces in Naval Institute Proceedings a few years back.

 

[Flugelman]

I met Adm Hayward when he was CINCPAC. VP-6 flew him and SECDEF Brown over to Barking Sands from NAS Barbers Pt in one of our newly minted P3 Super Bs. The one thing I remember from the flight was Adm Hayward asking the TACCO for a sheet of paper to write something down. The TACCO said something like "Here, take the whole pad, sir" to which the Adm replied "If I WANTED the whole pad, I would ask for the whole pad, now gimme a SHEET of damn paper!".

 

[Pags]

Because one forecast is written by local people who know the weather patterns and the other is written by someone in Norfolk who doesn't even know which state Milton is in (true story). As an IP, we all just looked at the PNS TAF to figure out what was really going to happen.

Don't worry, it's better when you get to the fleet...oh wait, no it's not.

Also, CYA on the part of the forecasters. If they forecaster crap and it's better than that, no one cares. If they forecast blue skies and crap shows up, they and the whole "forecasting from far away" system get smashed. There a few HAZREPs on the general unreliability of Naval Forecasters floating around.

 

[jmcquate]

When CVWs had 7+ different aircraft types, would there be 7+ Reps in Pri-Fly? Seems like it could get crowded up there.

 

[Pugs]

When CVWs had 7+ different aircraft types, would there be 7+ Reps in Pri-Fly? Seems like it could get crowded up there.

Wasn't just each type of aircraft but one JO from each squadron so CVW-8 in the late 80's early 90's there were reps from ; VA-36, VA-65, VF-84, VF-41, VAQ-141, VS-24, VAW-124, VFA-15, VFA-84 in the tower on a day recovery. Crowded back in the corner and trying to keep out of the way and dreading the words "Prowler rep what the fuck!"

 

[HeyJoe]

Not sure this is a stupid question...

Why are Navy TAFs completely fucking ridiculous compared to civil TAFs? These are right damn next door to each other. One has marginal VFR and summer thunderstorms. The other has an apocalypse.

And what's the effing point of TEMPO lines if they're going to completely fill the time between the BECMG lines.

KPNS 052339Z 0600/0624 14007KT P6SM VCSH SCT025 SCT050 BKN150
FM060800 09006KT P6SM VCSH BKN025 BKN050 BKN150
FM061500 12012KT P6SM BKN025 OVC040
TEMPO 0615/0618 VRB15KT 4SM -TSRA BR OVC030CB
FM061800 14015KT P6SM VCTS BKN025CB OVC040 PROB30 0618/0624 VRB20KT 4SM -TSRA BR OVC030CB

KNPA 0603/0703 10008KT 9999 VCTS SCT010 SCT025CB BKN080 BKN250 QNH2987INS
TEMPO 0603/0609 VRB20G30KT 3200 TSRA BKN010 BKN025CB OVC060
TEMPO 0609/0613 VRB20G30KT 3200 TSRA BKN010 BKN025CB OVC060
BECMG 0613/0615 12012G20KT SCT010 BKN025CB BKN080 OVC150 QNH2989INS
TEMPO 0613/0619 VRB25G40KT 0800 +TSRA BKN005 BKN020CB OVC030
TEMPO 0619/0701 VRB25G40KT 0800 +TSRA BKN005 BKN020CB OVC030
BECMG 0701/0703 12009G15KT 9999 VCSH SCT030 SCT100 BKN250 QNH2990INS AUTOMATED SENSOR METWATCH 0603 TIL 0611 T25/0611Z T30/0620Z

 

[jmcquate]

Why each squadron?

 

[HeyJoe]

Wasn't just each type of aircraft but one JO from each squadron so CVW-8 in the late 80's early 90's there were reps from ; VA-36, VA-65, VF-84, VF-41, VAQ-141, VS-24, VAW-124, VFA-15, VFA-84 in the tower on a day recovery. Crowded back in the corner and trying to keep out of the way and dreading the words "Prowler rep what the fuck!"

And the masses would part to allow the Boss a clear shot at you....especially if Boss wanted you up close and personal squeezed in between his chair and the mini's....

 

[SynixMan]

And the masses would part to allow the Boss a clear shot at you....especially if Boss wanted you up close and personal squeezed in between his chair and the mini's....

Is it just a watchbill rotated around the squadron?

 

[Pugs]

Is it just a watchbill rotated around the squadron?

Other than SDO it'll be the first watch you're "qualified" for (here's the book, record the interval, don't suck - training complete) so it just rotates among the JO's who are not LSO's or standing SDO.