So, what do you think about this?

[BurtonF22]

I am currently going through the selection process. I really want an SNA slot, but I have concerns. All of my stats are great except... you guessed it... my ASTB stats.

I would really apprecite some feedback on the info below... Do you think I have any chance? Any advice on what else I might do to make myself more competetive?

ASTB 2nd try: 48 5/5/5 -- I studied several hours everyday for over a month... I just have a problem with standardizerd tests.

*Prior Service Army Intelligence Analyst (airborne)
--Not a single blemish
--Released early to pursue college and Navy Commission

*Currently a Special Investigator for USAA insurance

*Graduated with a 3.74 GPA from University of West Florida; 3.91 major GPA
-Major: BS - Information Technology; Minor: E-learning Support Systems

*LOR:
- Navy 06 (Dr.)
- Army WO3 (Pilot)
- Ret. Secret Service Agent (Supervisor) -- guarded a couple presidents
- Civilian Attny - (Co-worker)

*Interviews:
- 4 Navy Pilots -- O-5, 0-4, 0-2, 0-2 (May have been submitted as 1 eval by O-5

*Physical:
- Maeet all physical requirements
- PT Stats: still perform at the 18 yr old level

*Volunteer:
-Red Cross; United Way

* Submitted letter detailing my ASTB score and my problems with standardized tests.


So, does the Navy really care about the "whole person concept" or does it all really come down to the ASTB?

 

[snake020]

Have you tried the ASTB gouge on Airwarriors?

 

[narfmasta]

What was your previous score? Did you improve? What exactly did you study? With a GPA like that I'm surprised you didn't score higher!

 

[BurtonF22]

Have you tried the ASTB gouge on Airwarriors?

Yea, I did... I literally downloaded, printed and tested on everything I could find. It was weird... as I was taking the ASTB for the 2nd time (test #4) I was telling myself how much easier it was then the 1st time. Anyway, I get finished, expecting to see this great score and only make a small improvement.

I have always been bad at standardized tests, but I can't figure out what I messed up on??

*I studied from:

-Both Arco preps
-Cliffsnotes Prep
-FAA manual
-Every gouge I could find through this site, the OCSNavy Site, and anything I found through google.

I busted my butt!

1st ASTB Scores: (Test 3) 46 4/5/4

 

[cdrsniper]

Im in the same boat.. Just apply.. all they can say is no... then, APPLY again, and again, till they take you.

 

[snake020]

IMO, 5/5/5 sounds like you could improve all around. Grab those Sparknotes review sheets they sell at bookstores for basic math and physics/mechanics for starters. The nautical terms are pretty easy; just commit that stuff to memory. Then hammer the aviation stuff. Most people on the site recommend the FAR/AIM, but I used and preferred the Jeppesen book for mastering all the aviation related stuff. You have another opportunity to test, why not use it?

 

[kevoGTO]

I think it's gonna be a real toss up. You've got some strong things on your app, such as your prior service, LOR's, GPA, etc...however, what you're application (as a "whole-person" concept) shows is that while you may make a strong officer candidate, you may have trouble handling the academic load of flight training. Without a technical degree, you need something (i.e. ASTB score) to show that you can handle math, physics, mechanical concepts, etc., but that you simply chose to study something else in college.

The advice to apply is solid gouge. The only way to guarantee denial is to fail to apply. If I were in your position, go ahead and apply if there is a board coming up soon, but you really do need a solid ASTB to up your chances. If you've only got one more shot, I'd at least apply once with the score you've got. 90% of 3rd time retests score at or below their previous score, so give it a go-round as is and hope for the best. IF they reject you, study for the ASTB for 3-4 hours a week max - don't burn yourself out on it like you did last time. Put it down 3 days before the test and don't look at it again. I really think that could help you improve.

Otherwise, best of luck. You've got all of the other big pieces of your app in great shape, which is more than many, many applicants for an SNA slot can say. Hopefully you'll get selected as-is...otherwise, I think a 6/6/6 and a 50 puts you in a very solid position for a Pro-Rec.

 

[BurtonF22]

I think it's gonna be a real toss up. You've got some strong things on your app, such as your prior service, LOR's, GPA, etc...however, what you're application (as a "whole-person" concept) shows is that while you may make a strong officer candidate, you may have trouble handling the academic load of flight training. Without a technical degree, you need something (i.e. ASTB score) to show that you can handle math, physics, mechanical concepts, etc., but that you simply chose to study something else in college.

The advice to apply is solid gouge. The only way to guarantee denial is to fail to apply. If I were in your position, go ahead and apply if there is a board coming up soon, but you really do need a solid ASTB to up your chances. If you've only got one more shot, I'd at least apply once with the score you've got. 90% of 3rd time retests score at or below their previous score, so give it a go-round as is and hope for the best. IF they reject you, study for the ASTB for 3-4 hours a week max - don't burn yourself out on it like you did last time. Put it down 3 days before the test and don't look at it again. I really think that could help you improve.

Otherwise, best of luck. You've got all of the other big pieces of your app in great shape, which is more than many, many applicants for an SNA slot can say. Hopefully you'll get selected as-is...otherwise, I think a 6/6/6 and a 50 puts you in a very solid position for a Pro-Rec.

Thanks kevo, that seems to be solid advice. Though I have to admit, sometimes the truth hurts.

I do have one question though... Is a degree in IT not considered a technical degree? We had to learn programming languages, how to build and repair computers and networks and other fun stuff. That seems pretty technical to me!?!?

 

[zippy]

however, what you're application (as a "whole-person" concept) shows is that while you may make a strong officer candidate, you may have trouble handling the academic load of flight training. Without a technical degree, you need something (i.e. ASTB score) to show that you can handle math, physics, mechanical concepts, etc., but that you simply chose to study something else in college.

Just as SAT scores can't really show how well you will do in college, your ASTB scores can't really show how well you will do in flight school. Your ASTB scores show how well you take the ASTB.

Burton, study for the ASTB so you can retake it if you need to reapply.

 

[BurtonF22]

Just as SAT scores can't really show how well you will do in college, your ASTB scores can't really show how well you will do in flight school. Your ASTB scores show how well you take the ASTB.

Burton, study for the ASTB so you can retake it if you need to reapply.

Thanks Zippy. I guess you are right. Everyone seems to agree that a much higher score is needed. I guess at the end off the day, we all really know the deal... The "whole person concept" only counts AFTER you have a good score on the ASTB.

Well guys, for those of you wondering about the ASTB or the WPC, here is your answer! ASTB or bust :-(

 

[kevoGTO]

Just as SAT scores can't really show how well you will do in college, your ASTB scores can't really show how well you will do in flight school. Your ASTB scores show how well you take the ASTB.

I completely agree that standardized tests are completely bogus for the most part, but the SAT is very good about one thing - it's an incredibly accurate predictor of a student's performance in first year classes in college. I guess the ASTB is their way of seeing if you'll flunk out in API - although, you're right, anyone with the motivation and the intelligence to get commissioned can make it through flight school with the right attitude. It's just a necessary evil, so we deal with it.

I do have one question though... Is a degree in IT not considered a technical degree? We had to learn programming languages, how to build and repair computers and networks and other fun stuff. That seems pretty technical to me!?!?

Although your major is considerably harder and more valuable than many of the liberal bullshit degrees awarded today, it's not technical because, according to whoever made up the guidelines, the curriculum isn't based primarily around math. Technical majors include engineering, math, physics, etc...

Don't be discouraged. I know it sounds like trite bulls**t, but you honestly never know until you apply. I've heard of a guy with 7/7/7 62 and a 3.xx from Embry-Riddle get non-select, and I know of a guy with a 4/3/4 44 that got picked up as an NFO. Needs of the Navy, just how it goes. Don't be the guy that gets discouraged and stops applying - show the boards you really want it, and apply until you get it.

 

[BurtonF22]

I completely agree that standardized tests are completely bogus for the most part, but the SAT is very good about one thing - it's an incredibly accurate predictor of a student's performance in first year classes in college. I guess the ASTB is their way of seeing if you'll flunk out in API - although, you're right, anyone with the motivation and the intelligence to get commissioned can make it through flight school with the right attitude. It's just a necessary evil, so we deal with it.


Although your major is considerably harder and more valuable than many of the liberal bullshit degrees awarded today, it's not technical because, according to whoever made up the guidelines, the curriculum isn't based primarily around math. Technical majors include engineering, math, physics, etc...

Don't be discouraged. I know it sounds like trite bulls**t, but you honestly never know until you apply. I've heard of a guy with 7/7/7 62 and a 3.xx from Embry-Riddle get non-select, and I know of a guy with a 4/3/4 44 that got picked up as an NFO. Needs of the Navy, just how it goes. Don't be the guy that gets discouraged and stops applying - show the boards you really want it, and apply until you get it.

Kevo, I think your right... I will keep applying as long as they let me and try the ASTB a 3rd and final time when I am allowed. Other than that, there is nothing more I can do but pray.

Unless you know who I can bribe or blackmail ;-)

As for the SAT/ACT I will tell you that I had the same problems with those standardized tests. I was a very moderate performer. But as you can see, the end result was not accuretly predicted by the test!

 

[E2Cougar]

Kevo, I think your right... I will keep applying as long as they let me and try the ASTB a 3rd and final time when I am allowed. Other than that, there is nothing more I can do but pray.

Unless you know who I can bribe or blackmail ;-)

As for the SAT/ACT I will tell you that I had the same problems with those standardized tests. I was a very moderate performer. But as you can see, the end result was not accuretly predicted by the test!

Yes, but if you don't perform well on the ASTB standardized test, how well do you see yourself performing on the API standardized tests? I'm not in API yet, and I'm honestly not trying to judge or say that you are a poor applicant in anyway. But perhaps you should be focusing on becoming a better test taker than studying the gouge - since in your own words this is what you are having a problem with.

 

[BurtonF22]

Yes, but if you don't perform well on the ASTB standardized test, how well do you see yourself performing on the API standardized tests? I'm not in API yet, and I'm honestly not trying to judge or say that you are a poor applicant in anyway. But perhaps you should be focusing on becoming a better test taker than studying the gouge - since in your own words this is what you are having a problem with.

Chris, I see your point, but part of what you are saying is flawed. Let me explain:
A "standardized test" is not the same as an "academic test" using a standardized format.

A ST is when the examiner is giving you a test without providing any formal instruction. Additionally, they do not tell you exactly what they are testing you on and they cover a very wide range of possible problems.
Examples: SAT, ACT, ASTB, ASVAB, LSAT...


An AT on the other hand is what you take in an academic environment. The examiner is testing you on material they have taught, that they have explained and through the learning process you know what you need to know and you prepare accordingly.
Examples: School exams, API exams, Course exams, final qual exams...

The two are very different and test very different things. ST largely measure you ability to take exams, while AT test you ability to understand, analyze and apply the knowledge you have been taught.

I am not worried about API as I never have any problems with AT, even in a standardized format.

 

[MasterBates]

You can bitch about the ASTB all you like.

It's a required hoop. You must jump through it.

Apply with what you got. Study for the ASTB again. If you get denied, reappl with a new ASTB score.