So much for no "forced" Nukes...

[exhelodrvr]

People have a right to be frustrated about being forced into the nuke program; there is nothing inappropriate about that. They also have the obligation to do their best if that is where the Navy decides to send them.

To the prior enlisted; as an EM, how would you have felt after finishing A school if you were told that you were going to be an MS for the rest of your time in the Navy?

 

[Van]

1) This thread is about the academy.

Hmmmm, looks like the discussion shifted a little. I'm assuming you were part of it...unless someone else was posing as you.

I understand that the Navy wants a diversified Officer field and all that, but if they are short X number of Nuke slots from the Academy, ROTC, OCS, etc. why don't they get them from somewhere else? STA-21 seems like a good source for Nuke O's. Half of my NSI class was "Baby Nukes" fresh from A-school or prototype that had been voluntold to apply for the STA-21 Nuke Option. I'm sure the Nuke quota could be met by grabbing up a few more of these candidates. They wouldn't have to go through the whole interview process becuase they are academically adept and they chose to be Enlisted Nukes. Give them the opportunity to be an Nuke O? That would sound good to me if I was a Nuke and had no idea what life in the fleet is like for that community.

They already force all male STA-21 Nuke OC's to go subs. If you are a nuke selectee you sign a statement of understanding stating that you WILL go subs if they need you too

They want memebers from all comissioning methods on all platforms. They don't want a situation where all officers in ANY community come from the enlisted side. A certain percentage needs to come from other methods.

The Navy bought the educations of both NROTC and USNA midshipmen. The Navy says "We need people for this". Why should they be above needs of service and STA-21 OC's the only ones subjected to it?

Like I said, I understand the diversity thing. If they are short a rather large number of candidates from one source then yea, give some of them their 2nd or 3rd choice. However, If they are only short 20-30 slots or so it's not going to change the diversity so much that ALL the Officers are "prior Enlisted" (and I use that term rather loosely for a Baby Nuke, their only "Naval Experience" is in school).

I completely understand that the needs of the Navy come first and that one source shouldn't be singled out for "punishment" or whatever. However, if there are people that WANT to do it, why deny them and then FORCE someone else to? I haven't met one Enlisted Nuke that was forced to be one. They chose their enlisted rate. Even if they are forced to apply for STA-21 as a Baby Nuke, they are staying in the field they CHOSE in the first place. Besides, it's no problem for any STA-21 selectee to deny their acceptance and stay Enlisted, and there is always an alternate chomping at the bit to fill that void.

Again, I'm talking about small numbers, not a gross undermanning.

I'm pretty sure STA-21 nukes still have to interview with the Admiral. I know a couple of people who got nuke option and then ended up not being nukes after their interview. One ended up pilot, the other failed his commissioning physical anyways.

I believe you are correct about the STA-21 Nuke options having interviews before commission, not sure if the circumstances are the same though. My point is; a Nuke-select doesn't look at an interview the same way. To them it is just a check in the block. For everyone else it's like being forced to playing russian roullette with their career after being selected for something else. The only OC's that talked about Nuke interviews were prior Nukes, but selected for Pilot. They were much more vocal about having to do the interview because they didn't want to go Nuke and were understandably frustrated during that time, but they ended up commissioning as SNAs.

2) I never implied that, don't put words in my mouth.

Being selected for pilot is like a handshake. Its a firm offer thats not in writing. Until its in writing, it don't mean shit. You volunteered knowing full well that there was a chance you would be going nuke. If you had absolutely zero desire to go nuke, you should have thought twice about signing the contract.

Your words, not mine. "I should have known full well...If I had zero desire to go nuke, I should have thought twice..." What am I supposed to imply from that? If it wasn't a shot at me, what was it?

I wasn't commissioned through the Academy or NROTC scholarship. The conditions for STA-21 are different. There are target options people get selected for and prior nukes that got picked up for other designators are being forced to do a nuke interview with the possibility of being sent back as a nuke O. I didn't have to worry about it because I wasn't a nuke, but I still think it sucks and threw an idea out there about increasing the number of STA-21 Nuke selections to help fill the gap in accessions with people that actually wanted to be Nuke Os instead of making a bunch of other people miserable.

 

[Van]

People have a right to be frustrated about being forced into the nuke program; there is nothing inappropriate about that. They also have the obligation to do their best if that is where the Navy decides to send them.

To the prior enlisted; as an EM, how would you have felt after finishing A school if you were told that you were going to be an MS for the rest of your time in the Navy?

+1 million!

 

[ELT(SS)]

Submarines is volunteer, nuke is not. tough shit. deal with it. And even then, nuke officers can be forced nuke. Responsibility of the commission.

Take it easy man. I would be a little upset if suddenly they made me supply corps. Very few people want to be a nuke, let them be mad about it. They have every reason to be upset.
There was always a chance that it can happen. But there is also the chance that you will walk out the front door and get shot in the vas deferens with a salt tipped cross bow arrow. And if that were to happen, I don't think you would lay down and think, 'well it could have happened, I guess I was taking this chance every time I walked outside.'

 

[EM1toNFO]

If they need more nukes, why not allow ALL prior nukes to apply for the Nuclear Option under STA-21? I was okay with going back nuke, but being on recruiting duty when I applied for STA-21, I wasn't allowed to. Therefore, I got pumped up for something different, Aviation. They need to look at where BIG numbers are leaving the community and see why/how. Then maybe they can get the numbers they need to 'make goal'.

I thought I covered this already!

 

[Van]

I thought I covered this already!

Oops! Missed that. Sorry, the credit for the idea goes to you!

 

[EM1toNFO]

Oops! Missed that. Sorry, the credit for the idea goes to you!

Just easin' the tension baby, just easin' the tension..." HAPPY GILMORE

 

[Spekkio]

Submarines is volunteer, nuke is not. tough shit. deal with it. And even then, nuke officers can be forced nuke. Responsibility of the commission.

I have some fellow JOs pulled from other communities who would disagree with you...

Being forced into sub service is what most people are referring to when they say the "nuke draft," since that's what's happening right now.

Now, if you could be a good nuke and please point me to the reference where it says in the contract that USNA MIDN are obligated to serve as sub nukes should the needs of the Navy dictate they must, that NROTC MIDN must list sub nuke on their preference sheet no matter what, or that the "responsibility of my commission" is to serve as whatever officer the Navy might decide is best on a whim?

 

[Van]

It's all in the hips, yea!

Just easin' the tension baby, just easin' the tension..." HAPPY GILMORE

...well ease it on someone else!

 

[EM1]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I've remember hearing from someone that the Virginia class was actually designed with the possibility of coed quarters in mind so it won't require a new class... 688's definitely look out of the question though

As far as I know, they aren't. Even if they are, the designs would be another ten years off at least. Nothing's out of the question I suppose, but I think they'll want to see how the Ohio Classes turn out and go from there.

I went down on the Virginia and looked around a bit when she pulled into Kings Bay during sea trials and I don't see how you could retrofit something like that, but I understand she's modular, and built on drop in technology, so I guess anything is possible.

Long and short, I don't know. But I do know a couple Ohio Classes will be coed probably by the time I hit the fleet again.

There's a bubble heads blog spot place out there that has a lot more info on how this will probably play out over the next few years. I'd put a link up, but I'm not sure if that's allowed, I'm sure you can find it though.

Hope that helps. Any time I can give you vague non-answers, you just let me know

 

[EM1]

Pulled straight from the STA-21 website. If they need more nukes, why not allow ALL prior nukes to apply for the Nuclear Option under STA-21? I was okay with going back nuke, but being on recruiting duty when I applied for STA-21, I wasn't allowed to. Therefore, I got pumped up for something different, Aviation.

Thanks for pointing that out again. I can't stand that fact either. I had to apply NFO when I was on the NR-1 because I couldn't get around this requirement. I was qualified EOOW, and was coming up on the age limit for just about every option except NFO. It makes no sense, and I've been griping about this to everyone important when I get asked for input. I will say that NR was more than happy to release me from NFO in order to redesignate me as a nuke. I had gotten pretty comfortable with the idea of being an NFO (I wouldn't have applied if I wasn't) but the whole process to me seems rediculous, when with a little change of instruction I could have just applied nuke from the fleet.

 

[RotorHead04]

Now, if you could be a good nuke and please point me to the reference where it says in the contract that USNA MIDN are obligated to serve as sub nukes should the needs of the Navy dictate they must, that NROTC MIDN must list sub nuke on their preference sheet no matter what, or that the "responsibility of my commission" is to serve as whatever officer the Navy might decide is best on a whim?

Had to dust off ye ole commissioning document for this one:

So what am I required to do once commissioned as an officer?

Know Ye, that reposing special trust and confidence in the patriotism, valor, fidelity and abilities of .................., I do appoint ["him" or "her"] a ["Second Lieutenant" or "Ensign'] in the [name of service] to rank as such from the .... day of ........ ...... This Officer will therefore carefully and diligently discharge the duties of the office to which appointed by doing and performing all manner of things thereunto belonging.

Do what you're told to do, it's your job.

And how long do I have to do my job?

This commission is to continue in force during the pleasure of the President of the United States of America for the time being, under the provisions of those Public Laws relating to Officers of the Armed Forces of the United States of America and the component thereof in which this appointment is made.

Until someone tells you that you can stop.

See, it's pretty simple ...

All that being said, I'm not about to stand here and tell you that I would have been anything less than crushed if that card was played on me, particularly in such a way that forced me into being a sub guy. We all make different kinds of sacrifices as Naval Officers ... some of us sooner than others.