Single Seater or 2?

[Goober]

You're not going to start defending NFO's that wear centurion patches now are you?

I like to think of them as survival patches, i.e. "You guys failed to kill me 100 times on this boat, 100 times on that boat, 100 times on that boat..."

 

[HAL Pilot]

You're not going to start defending NFO's that wear centurion patches now are you?

My few traps were as a pax enjoying the ride so I don't know enough to comment personally. But I've heard a lot of tail hook pilots say their NFO saved their butts during a trap - usually when they were talking about a night trap in bad weather.

 

[TheGreatWaldo]

I'm not sure about the Navy, but in the Marine Corps (from what I've heard first hand and researched from my limited time and experience in the aviation pipeline) there are somewhat significant mission differences and opportunities between the single seat and two seaters. For example, Charlies are obviously the only models that go to the carriers; the two seaters are all weather (hence the AW) and focus more on the all weather air-to-ground aspect whereas the straights tend to do more ACM since they tend to be the more capable of the two in air-to-air.

If this is infact the case, did/would any of these reasons persuade you towards one model over the other?

I'm not saying that C's don't do air-to-ground or that D's don't do air-to-air effectively. The F/A is there for a reason.

 

[Flash]

Wow... great way to operate proffesionally :banghead_

Seriously what was this guys plan should he ever have a situation where his WSO is put out of action and he needs to bring back the aircraft on his own from who knows where. I thought the whole point of being "Aircraft Commander" was that you had at least a basic understanding of how everything works. Hey we dont need that Navigation part, thats his job is a lousy attitude for anybody in aviation to have.

I would not be so quick to judge the guy, esecially if you have little experience with it. Simply put, to throw a guy who is used to a two-seater back into a single seater just like that is an ORM issue to say the least. A pilot in a two seat aircraft is going to be used to be doing things a certain with a guy in back and they may not work in a single seater. And if the pilot may feel that they can just jump and do it themselves just with a snap of the fingers then it was the right call. Two seat Hornet drivers jump in if you have anything to add, or to shoot me down.

A good example is that when a Prowler flew with two pilots or a non-qualified guy in the front right it was either with a RAG instructor in the other seat or one of the senior pilots in the pilot in an opertional squadron. We had a VMFA(AW) XO and former Intruder driver fly with our XO in Iwakuni. Even though he was an experienced guy we had the most experienced pilot in the squadron in the left seat for the flight (he was a bit rusty in the front right seat, he called for taxi on base and was told by the JG SDO to take a left by McD's and get him a Big Mac.....our XO chewed him out for it )

Throwing someone unnecessarily into an unfamiliar situation is a good way to cause a mishap..........

 

[jarhead]

I'm not sure about the Navy, but in the Marine Corps (from what I've heard first hand and researched from my limited time and experience in the aviation pipeline) there are somewhat significant mission differences and opportunities between the single seat and two seaters. For example, Charlies are obviously the only models that go to the carriers; the two seaters are all weather (hence the AW) and focus more on the all weather air-to-ground aspect whereas the straights tend to do more ACM since they tend to be the more capable of the two in air-to-air.

If this is infact the case, did/would any of these reasons persuade you towards one model over the other?

I'm not saying that C's don't do air-to-ground or that D's don't do air-to-air effectively. The F/A is there for a reason.

There are no significant differences in the missions of Marine Corps F/A-18C’s and D’s. I don’t know about the Navy's E's & F's but I suspect their missions are similar, if not the same.

F/A-18D’s can go to the boat but they don’t, other than at the RAG, because of limited fuel/“bring back” ability of the D with regards to max trap weight.

The All Weather or (AW) is comical. All hornets are all weather capable with the ability to fight both A-A & A-G in any weather. The (AW) was carried forward by the D squadrons from when they flew A-6’s, which were All Weather platforms in a time of “day only” fighters & attack aircraft.

 

[skidkid]

The All Weather or (AW) is comical. All hornets are all weather capable with the ability to fight both A-A & A-G in any weather. The (AW) was carried forward by the D squadrons from when they flew A-6’s, which were All Weather platforms in a time of “day only” fighters & attack aircraft.

I thought it meant Add WSO.
(sim smiles)

 

[invertedflyer]

NFOs ... although you're primarily handling the weapons systems and navigation in the aircraft, do you ever let the pilot handle these tasks (Marine NFOs?). If so is it kind of like (ok we'll split the workload, you monitor screens a and b, I'll monitor b, c, and e) ... Do you guys try to keep your front seaters sharp? The word I received from -134 and -101 is that its very much a "single seat" mentality... just wondering if the pilots keep their skills up during training... just sounded odd with that earlier comment about a pilot feeling uncomfortable flying without his NFO, seems like you wouldn't want to become too dependent on that IMO (not that NFOs aren't important... if the Gods dictate I'd love to be in a D-model someday -- read: my preference).

 

[Squid]

the pilots @ 101 are taught to have single seat mentality just like the rest of flight training. It's not until the VERY end when they tell you what squadron you are going to do pilots find out if they're going to C or D squadrons.

I've heard it thrown around the ready room and in classes. The best WSOs are the ones that have a pilot mentality. I've flown both types around in the sim and there is a difference.

 

[A4sForever]

I've got @ 3000 hours single seat/two seat Navy ... and a whole bunch of multi-crew time in civie street .... they're both great. They're ALL great, in point of fact.

It's what YOU make of it and what kinda pilot YOU are that will make the difference at the end of the day ... it's a personal thing. Kinda like ties ... you don't want someone else buying a tie for you, do you ??? You don't want someone else telling you which community is better, either.

I've seen great results coming from both communities. I've had great experiences in both communities. Put in for what you want --- you won't be sorry, no matter whether you have to do all the "work" or whether you have an Amigo to share it with ...

 

[Single Seat]

I'm sure you're joking, but I'm guessing that means they all have more traps than you? As for the second part, I'm not sure who says that, but they must not be very confident in it as I've never heard anyone say it withing earshot of an F crew.

I'd venture to say an experienced NFO probably would have saved me from a few lectures from CAG paddles. If doing nothing else than injecting a comment to force a bolter. Much better than the screaming power call to the taxi one.

And yes I was joking.

 

[invertedflyer]

A4s and others, thanks for the info and opinions. Personally, as long as I end up in an airframe that is a "crew" for at least one tour I'll be happy. Regardless, I'll try to make the best of whatever community I become a part of... as long as I have the opportunity I know it'll be a blast.

 

[F/A-18 DRIVER]

Two seats? Twice the eyes....half the SA.

Single Seat Forever!

 

[Schnugg]

We had a VMFA(AW) XO and former Intruder driver fly with our XO in Iwakuni. Even though he was an experienced guy we had the most experienced pilot in the squadron in the left seat for the flight (he was a bit rusty in the front right seat, he called for taxi on base and was told by the JG SDO to take a left by McD's and get him a Big Mac.....our XO chewed him out for it )

Ahh yes, the good old days...ready room banter and base radio fun was always entertaining.

Good on the JG for having the nuts to do it.

 

[A4sForever]

Two seats? Twice the eyes....half the SA.

Single Seat Forever!

And you would know .... how ???? .... coming from a single seat world and all .....

Again, having done "both" ... Lo and Behold !!! I discovered that I was as good a pilot with two seats as with one. Maybe even better ... as I had someone to "impress".

Heck, you shoulda seen me in the 747 with 400 seats behind me !!!

I guess this all means that when paired with another crewmember, you're only half the pilot ; ergo, half the SA .... ???

 

[cosmania]

There are no significant differences in the missions of Marine Corps F/A-18C’s and D’s. I don’t know about the Navy's E's & F's but I suspect their missions are similar, if not the same.

F/A-18D’s can go to the boat but they don’t, other than at the RAG, because of limited fuel/“bring back” ability of the D with regards to max trap weight.

The All Weather or (AW) is comical. All hornets are all weather capable with the ability to fight both A-A & A-G in any weather. The (AW) was carried forward by the D squadrons from when they flew A-6’s, which were All Weather platforms in a time of “day only” fighters & attack aircraft.

Maybe I'm too Old School, but doesn't the Navy/Marine Corps subscribe to a 2 seat method for all FAC(A) qualifications? Thus the D can do it and the C cannot? Also, is there no greater mission for a Marine Corps pilot than to directly support troops in contact, therefore making the FAC(A) the most desirable mission in Marine Corps Air?