Sen. Schumer gas for electric car trade in program?

[Randy Daytona]

Sigh . . . come on, people. Reading is fundamental. I've never voted for Inslee in my life, and last year I wrote in a protest vote against him and that fucking nutjob Culp. But if you're honestly going to make me hold my nose and stick up for the guy in this case, I'll go and get the air freshener. Because this is all fake news.

That law didn't ban all non-electric cars from 2030. It directed the formulation of a plan to get rid of non-electric cars after 2030. A paper plan which has no force of law. Not a ban. It's political pandering, no more.

Update on Washington State:

Washington state to ban sales of new gas cars by 2035, following California

Public will have chance to weigh in on details of plan, with transportation accounting for 40% of state greenhouse gas emissions

www.theguardian.com

Also, major price increases on electric cars - $8,000+ in some cases. What will the working class be able to afford?

Ford hikes price of electric Mustang Mach-E by as much as $8,475 due to âsignificantâ battery cost increases

Ford said the markups are due to "significant material cost increases, continued strain on key supply chains" and market conditions.

www.cnbc.com

 

[wink]

I just don't see battery operated cars being that practical at present for cross country travel.

Every time I think I might find an EV attractive I am reminded of what I see on the fairly regular 800 mile drive I make to Houston. It is quite often that I see charging stations at truck stops and interstate adjacent small towns with people sitting in their cars listening to music, surfing the net on their phones, or playing with the dog and/or kids, while they charge up. Meanwhile, I am gassed up, fed and on my way.

 

[wink]

My bill was Tier One so it was only $0.32, but in the tiered plan off-peak pricing is only a couple of cents higher.

But what I was referring to was the special program for EVs which gives you an even lower rate if you charge in the middle of night like most people with EVs can do.

View attachment 36154

Holy cow. I live in the desert. My monthly bill is huge in the summer due to ac use and pool filtration. But the cost of my electricity is less than this. On peak summer (depending on months) is 21.3 cents to 24.2 cents. Off peak times in the summer is less then 8 cents. This chart represents almost 3 times the cost of electricity I pay.

 

[exNavyOffRec]

Decades? Really? That sounds incredibly optimistic. I'll grant you one decade. I drove my first Jeep for 16 years and about 190K miles, and that is WAY longer than most people keep their cars, and very few people are going to spend 10K to put a new engine in an older car... they're just going to buy something else.

Anyway, I read that the Tesla battery, depending on model, is warrantied to last between 100K and 150K miles. Also way longer than most people keep their cars. I'm not saying that battery replacement isn't a consideration for electric car owners, but not nearly to the extent as some of you are claiming.

Those around me that have bought EV's tend to fit these traits: income above average, small family, commute small distance for work or WFH, the EV is not their only car, the EV is used for short family trips but long trips is not used, they tend to only keep a car for 3-5 years.

It seems at this point those that are working low wage jobs that need to commute to work each day are being ignored with this EV push given the cost of EV's.

 

[Brett327]

we all know is coming

This is about on the same level as “Obama is coming for our guns.”

 

[HokiePilot]

I see this discussion very similar to the transition from film photography. Early on film cameras were clearly superior to equally priced digital cameras. But over time, it got to the point where basically no one (except for hipsters) uses film cameras.

The same thing is going to happen with cars. ICE cars are mature. There are going to be small improvements but nothing crazy. Electric cars are still new and already people are buying them because it makes sense for them. It will only continue. They will continue to improve. Cheaper versions will be introduced. Hickups will be worked around.

Hell, Ford just released the Electric F150! I don't think anyone is going to buy that to show off about their care of the environment. People are buying it because it works for their use case.

 

[Griz882]

I often wonder if ECs aren’t going to become a kind of stop gap in automotive development, something between internal combustion engines and perhaps hydrogen engines. There are clearly limits to battery powered autos that won’t work well with how Americans use cars (long range drives and commuting) and people are going to quickly demand something on the line of “gas and go” without the pollution.

 

[wink]

This is about on the same level as “Obama is coming for our guns.”

Why, because you find @jmcquate comment a hyper partisan dog whistle of sorts, or because you think mileage taxes are very unlikely? I find no equivalency to predicting a gun grab, which involves constitutional cultural, economic and morality issues.

Mileage taxes have been proposed over and over at various levels of government for a long time. They are just another spin on use fees or taxes, which is solidly libertarian and not illogical. Use fees/taxes are common. It is the theory behind gasoline taxes. Drive more. Pay more. As technology makes taxing by the mile easier and cost efficient I am certain it will happen. Don't expect an equivalent reduction in other forms of taxing that supposedly benefit the driver and highway system.

 

[exNavyOffRec]

I see this discussion very similar to the transition from film photography. Early on film cameras were clearly superior to equally priced digital cameras. But over time, it got to the point where basically no one (except for hipsters) uses film cameras.

The same thing is going to happen with cars. ICE cars are mature. There are going to be small improvements but nothing crazy. Electric cars are still new and already people are buying them because it makes sense for them. It will only continue. They will continue to improve. Cheaper versions will be introduced. Hickups will be worked around.

Hell, Ford just released the Electric F150! I don't think anyone is going to buy that to show off about their care of the environment. People are buying it because it works for their use case.

The evaluations on the EV trucks in real world use conditions have not been kind.

 

[HokiePilot]

The evaluations on the EV trucks in real world use conditions have not been kind.

Maybe, but the people who it makes sense for will buy it. And they will continue to get better.

 

[Randy Daytona]

I often wonder if ECs aren’t going to become a kind of stop gap in automotive development, something between internal combustion engines and perhaps hydrogen engines. There are clearly limits to battery powered autos that won’t work well with how Americans use cars (long range drives and commuting) and people are going to quickly demand something on the line of “gas and go” without the pollution.

I wonder what the cost difference of a plug-in hybrid with both a traditional internal combustion engine plus enough of a battery for 100 miles of range (enough for most people’s daily commute) would be compared to a full electric with a 300+ mile range battery?

 

[jmcquate]

This is about on the same level as “Obama is coming for our guns.”

CA estimates 8.8 billon in gas tax revenue in 2021-2022. As that number drops over the next 10 to 20 years, what do you think the state will target to fill that gap?

 

[Randy Daytona]

I see this discussion very similar to the transition from film photography. Early on film cameras were clearly superior to equally priced digital cameras. But over time, it got to the point where basically no one (except for hipsters) uses film cameras.

The same thing is going to happen with cars. ICE cars are mature. There are going to be small improvements but nothing crazy. Electric cars are still new and already people are buying them because it makes sense for them. It will only continue. They will continue to improve. Cheaper versions will be introduced. Hickups will be worked around.

Hell, Ford just released the Electric F150! I don't think anyone is going to buy that to show off about their care of the environment. People are buying it because it works for their use case.

The difference being the amount of lithium, cobalt, nickel and copper available for a global transition. Is there enough - or will a scarcity of materials drive the prices of electric cars to a point where the working class will be unable to afford electric cars?

 

[Griz882]

CA estimates 8.8 billon in gas tax revenue in 2021-2022. As that number drops over the next 10 to 20 years, what do you think the state will target to fill that gap?

It’s not imaginary, or even “future thinking.” It is happening…

As lawmakers look to add mileage tax to electric vehicles, critics worry it’ll deter sales

The state Transportation Department said the gas tax is no longer able to sustain federal funding.

www.hawaiinewsnow.com

SB 5444, to impose a mileage tax on owners of electric and hybrid vehicles

www.washingtonpolicy.org

 

[Brett327]

CA estimates 8.8 billon in gas tax revenue in 2021-2022. As that number drops over the next 10 to 20 years, what do you think the state will target to fill that gap?

CA also has a $100B budget surplus, so probably nothing.

It is happening…

That someone has written a proposed piece of legislation doesn't mean that it's happening. Plenty of mayonnaise-brained gun control bills got written during the Obama admin too... yet here we are, with all our guns, right where we left them.

Come on, guys.