SELRES VT Life

[SlickAg]

Anyone know if going from active HTs to SELRES or FTS VTs is possible?

Yes. FTS and SELRES are two different balls of wax though.

You're eligible to join FTS communities based on your fleet airframe; helo guys can apply for their fleet community, VT(P), HT, and VR. For some communities, like VFA/C, there is sometimes a stipulation that they get first dibs for VFA guys applying for FTS. This fluctuates based on manning. So it could play out that if there's an HT FTS shortage, they'll get first crack at any helo guys applying for FTS before they get considered for VT(P) or VR. You could conceivably not get what you want, but you can always turn down FTS. Sidetone: for VR, you have to accept your FTS transition before you even know what squadrons are available, much less getting orders.

Lots of good info on this page: http://www.public.navy.mil/bupers-n.../reserve/fts/Pages/FTSRedesignationBoard.aspx

For VT SELRES you're rushing the TRAWING you want to end up at. The Aviation Selection Boards are held basically quarterly and each TRAWING Reserve Component Commander (roughly analogous to the Reserve Commodore) gets together with some folks from MATSG and CNATRA and they have a board. Understand that AC guys in the squadron will usually have the best relationship with their RC brethren and these spots are harder to come by these days due to their desirability, but they're looking to hire someone for the long haul to get the most return on investment. SAU COs will typically get some say in who they'd like to take as well. Remember that if there's two equally qualified guys and one of them is already current in the T/M/S, they'd probably take the current guy barring some sort of personality clash.

My own experience has been that FTS boards are more "Big Navy", they care less about aircraft quals and flight time than FITREPs. SELRES wants someone they're going to hang with at DWEs for the next 10+ years.

 

[squorch2]

@Jim123 did just this...

 

[Jim123]

You can go to/from just about anything in the training command if your timing is good...

60 production days per FY is a CNATRA reserves rule. It's pretty reasonable in that things that count towards production days (or half a production day) include your flight physical, going to the safety standdown, canceling your flight for bad weather or broken airplane (as long as you still brief your student or basically don't "phone it in"), stuff like that.

Funny that even nowadays, once in a blue moon, somebody will still spout the B.S. that "reservists don't get paid unless the wheels are in the well/they launch/etc." even though that hasn't been true for over a decade. (Several RCCs* in a row have been emphatic that they do not want their people taking off in a thunderstorm if not flying means not getting paid, and to prevent that they set their policies accordingly.)


* basically head reserve dude at the wing, sort of like the reserve equivalent of the Commodore

 

[DanMa1156]

My own experience has been that FTS boards are more "Big Navy", they care less about aircraft quals and flight time than FITREPs. SELRES wants someone they're going to hang with at DWEs for the next 10+ years.

Thank you so much for this post. Solid info. What's DWE though?

 

[Pags]

FST can be needs of the Navy...had a buddy get picked up for FTS with an HT background and was expecting to go back to HTs. He instead ended up in HM land flying 53s.

 

[Flash]

Thank you so much for this post. Solid info. What's DWE though?

Drill weekend.

 

[Uncle Fester]

Good gouge. I think a lot of the 'wheels up = $' thing is confusion over what makes a legit AFTP drill. Policy as I understood it was you could claim AFTP as long as you were on a signed flight sked - flights, sims, or other directly-flight-related things like flight physicals or IGS. Confusion resulted when you were on the sked and then cancelled before you even came in to work.

 

[Randy Daytona]

Thank you so much for this post. Solid info. What's DWE though?

As someone who spent a lot of time in the Training Command, the problem you are going to run into trying to go from HT active duty to VT SelRes is that the reserves will have to cut orders - and money - to train you - and then get someone who has no quals in the aircraft. That money training you could be spent training students. As Jim123 said, timing is everything but there is usually a line of people waiting to get into the VT's. You may want to see if you can get a Wing billet and crossed trained into the T-6 while on active duty.

Jim123, are the VT SAU's still twice the size of the HT SAU's ? Still a lot of bitterness about that at South Field - especially since the number of squadrons is the same, the number of active duty instructors is roughly equivalent, and the the number of training aircraft (TH-57, T-6) is similar.

 

[Gatordev]

The Training Command is predicated on providing production days - 60 if I remember correctly but Jim123 can give you a better answer. As we know, you get 48 IDT's per year and a minimum 12 days of AT. Whiting always gave 72 AFTP's (technically the limit is 84 according to the NRUMS class I took long ago but I have never heard of anyone getting above 72.)

http://www.public.navy.mil/bupers-n...ons/BUPERSInstructions/Documents/1001.39F.pdf

If you mean the retirement formula, it is in Chapter 20:

I meant the "you can't get more than 130 points a year" rule. Wasn't sure where that's written.

The 72 vs 84 changes from year to year on how it gets written. Several years ago, it was worded that you could get no more than 72 ATP/AFTPs and could get no more than 12 RMPs. A couple years later, it was written more vaguely and said you couldn't get more than 84 Additionals and no more than 12 RMPs. Like everything, I think it depends on what problem they're trying solve from 2 years earlier.

Good gouge. I think a lot of the 'wheels up = $' thing is confusion over what makes a legit AFTP drill. Policy as I understood it was you could claim AFTP as long as you were on a signed flight sked - flights, sims, or other directly-flight-related things like flight physicals or IGS. Confusion resulted when you were on the sked and then cancelled before you even came in to work.

Part of the confusion may come from the fact that "wheels up = $" was actually a thing. Then they realized that SELRES were taking off when conditions weren't the best just so they could get paid. This led to changing the rule to just having to be on the flight schedule. That said, per the rules, you don't get paid all 8 hours if you're not there all 8 hours. So even if you brief and cancel, if you want both drills, technically you need to stick around for 8 hours (or stick around for 4 and just get one drill).

I'm not here to argue what may actually happen, of course.

 

[Randy Daytona]

I meant the "you can't get more than 130 points a year" rule. Wasn't sure where that's written.

The 72 vs 84 changes from year to year on how it gets written. Several years ago, it was worded that you could get no more than 72 ATP/AFTPs and could get no more than 12 RMPs. A couple years later, it was written more vaguely and said you couldn't get more than 84 Additionals and no more than 12 RMPs. Like everything, I think it depends on what problem they're trying solve from 2 years earlier.



Part of the confusion may come from the fact that "wheels up = $" was actually a thing. Then they realized that SELRES were taking off when conditions weren't the best just so they could get paid. This led to changing the rule to just having to be on the flight schedule. That said, per the rules, you don't get paid all 8 hours if you're not there all 8 hours. So even if you brief and cancel, if you want both drills, technically you need to stick around for 8 hours (or stick around for 4 and just get one drill).

I'm not here to argue what may actually happen, of course.

I think this is what you are looking for: http://www.dtic.mil/whs/directives/corres/pdf/121507p.pdf

f. Retirement Point Credit Limitation (1) Retirement points credited for activities other than active service or Funeral Honors Duty may not exceed:
(a) For any 1 anniversary year closing before September 23, 1996: 60 retirement points.
(b) For anniversary years closing on or after September 23, 1996, but before October 30, 2000: 75 retirement points.
(c) For anniversary years closing on or after October 30, 2000, but before October 30, 2007: 90 retirement points.
(d) For anniversary years closing on or after October 30, 2007: 130 retirement points.

I am still trying to figure out which forms of active duty count towards reducing your retirement age. I did find this - clear as mud.

5. REDUCED ELIGIBILITY AGE FOR RECEIPT OF RETIRED PAY FOR NON-REGULAR SERVICE a. A member of the Ready Reserve who serves on active duty or performs active service as specified in paragraphs b(1), b(2), b(3), or b(4) of this section will have the eligibility age for receipt of retired pay in accordance with section 12731 of Reference (c) reduced below 60 years of age by 3 months for each aggregate of 90 days for which the Service member serves on active DoDI 1215.07, January 24, 2013 Change 2, 05/24/2016 17 ENCLOSURE 3 duty or performs active service in any fiscal year within the timeframes specified in paragraphs b(1) or b(2) subject to paragraph c e of this section. b. For the purpose of paragraph 5a of this section, a day of active duty or active service will be included in only one aggregate of 90 days, and the qualifying active service will be defined as: (1) Active duty or active service in any fiscal year, after January 28, 2008, through September 30, 2014, either in support of contingency operations under a provision of law specified in section 101(a)(13)(B) of Reference (c), or an order to active duty pursuant to section 12301(d) of Reference (c). , except for: (2) Active duty or active service in any two consecutive fiscal years, after September 30, 2014, either in support of contingency operations under a provision of law specified in section 101(a)(13)(B) of Reference (c), or an order to active duty pursuant to section 12301(d) of Reference (c). (2)(3) Full-time National Guard duty, after January 28, 2008, for a call to active service by a governor and authorized by the President or the Secretary of Defense in accordance with section 502(f) of Reference (hi) for the purpose of responding to either a national emergency declared by the President or a national emergency supported by federal funds. (3)(4) Active duty pursuant to section 12301(h) of Reference (c) to receive medical care as a result of a wound, illness, or injury while serving on active service as specified in paragraphs b(1),and , b(2), or b(3) of this section will be treated as a continuation of the original call or order to active duty or active service for the purpose of reducing the eligibility age for a non-regular retirement of section 12731 of Reference (c). c. Active duty pursuant to section 12301(d) of Reference (c) for the purpose of Active Guard and Reserve duty in accordance with section 12310 of Reference (c) will not be included as service on active duty. d. Active duty authorized by the Secretary of the Department of Homeland Security, before December 31, 2011, pursuant to section 712 of Title 14, U.S.C. (Reference (lm)) will not be included as service on active duty.

Clear as mud..... Does this mean ADSW? ADT? AT?

To go back to the other problems of SelRes being forced to takeoff - for a while, unless you got 2 AFTP's (or IDT's) in a day, you would have to pay for your BOQ room. Imagine coming down to Pensacola, getting ready to fly and either weather hits or you student goes med down. Instead of getting paid, you have to pay the BOQ. A lot of reservists were justifiably not happy.

 

[Uncle Fester]

To go back to the other problems of SelRes being forced to takeoff - for a while, unless you got 2 AFTP's (or IDT's) in a day, you would have to pay for your BOQ room. Imagine coming down to Pensacola, getting ready to fly and either weather hits or you student goes med down. Instead of getting paid, you have to pay the BOQ. A lot of reservists were justifiably not happy.

Not to mention, the reservist most likely took off his civvie job in order to go fly that day. We're not all in the Show.

 

[Gatordev]

Clear as mud..... Does this mean ADSW? ADT? AT?

My understanding (and I think Flash pulled something up some time ago that validated this) is that it's ADSW, ADT, and MOB that all count as long as it's ISO of GWOT/Contingency Ops and meets the minimum time within a FY.

Thanks for the 130 points reference. Although the way I read that is that you could still come in on Schools ADT for 4 months at the beginning of your anniversary year to get through an ITU and then still crush drills for the rest of the AY and still get more than 130 points for the year (120 points of ADT + 50 or more points for entitlement). Yeah, yeah, I know FY and AY don't always allow for that, but I'm just talking notional numbers.

 

[Randy Daytona]

My understanding (and I think Flash pulled something up some time ago that validated this) is that it's ADSW, ADT, and MOB that all count as long as it's ISO of GWOT/Contingency Ops and meets the minimum time within a FY.

Thanks for the 130 points reference. Although the way I read that is that you could still come in on Schools ADT for 4 months at the beginning of your anniversary year to get through an ITU and then still crush drills for the rest of the AY and still get more than 130 points for the year (120 points of ADT + 50 or more points for entitlement). Yeah, yeah, I know FY and AY don't always allow for that, but I'm just talking notional numbers.

What you have are 2 separate silos of retirement points: active and inactive.

Active is:
1) Active Duty,
2) ADSW
3) ADT
4) AT

Inactive is:
1) IDT's
2) AFTP's
3) Correspondence Courses

You can do more than 130 AFTP's, IDT's etc but can only count 130 for "inactive" points per anniversary year.
You can do up to 365 (or 366) active points in a year.
You can do a combination of active and inactive points but can not exceed 365 (366) for retirement point capture.

Many of us average well over 200 retirement points per year while in SelRes which explains how we get over 7,200 points (the equivalent of a 20 year retirement)

 

[Jim123]

Jim123, are the VT SAU's still twice the size of the HT SAU's ?

Not sure about exactly twice the size but yes, the VT SAUs are still billeted substantially larger than the HT SAUs.

 

[Gatordev]

What you have are 2 separate silos of retirement points: active and inactive.

Lots of acronyms

I'm guessing we're in agreement and just talking past one another. Based off of a much earlier post, I thought (incorrectly) that you were saying you could only get 130 points an AY. Period. Given your last two posts, it's clear that's not the intent of your post(s) and that you can get 130 inactive plus your active points. That was my confusion. I think we're on the same page now, and I still appreciate the 130 point reference, as it was something I had heard a couple of years ago, but was lost in the fog my my brain (and Scotch).