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Self Defense stories

FlyinRock

Registered User
http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot14.htm

Both #00 buck and 5.56 will blow through four interior walls. If your backdrop is an exterior wall, lead is leaving your house. End of story. The difference is that for every trigger squeeze with your trusty 12ga, you've got nine projectiles leaving your house. Statistically speaking, you would have a greater chance of hitting someone two or three rooms over with buck.

Not according to the tests I did years back. 00Buck did some serious damage passing through a typical dry wall but did not penetrate the 2nd wall which was 10 feet away. On what do you base your opinion/facts?
Semper fi
Rocky
 

FlyinRock

Registered User
My 870 with a 20" loaded with #4 is the shotgun handy followed by my wifes Mossburg 20ga loaded with #4. If any bad guys get thru that, they will have to wade thru our 1911's with hardball.
By that time it will be a done deal. Either we win or they do.
What can your family do with your weapons of choice? Many of us know how to do it all with training and practice but how about our families? I am fortunate that my wife is deadly with her 1911's, and is quite proficient with her Mossburg OR the Rem 870.
The average home invasion is not an extended firefight, and most of the guns will be clean. So why argue about what is most reliable after 2-300 rounds when most likely there won't be more than 6-7 shots fired?
It seems to me, many of the opinions exressed on this subject are as a result of reading some article rather than actually going out and checking for yourself.
I know A4's has done a lot of shooting and has experience to base his opinions on but the preponderance seem to be armchair warriors when it comes to CQB.
now I feel better................
Ol shy & Bashful
Semper Fi
 

Rocketman

Rockets Up
Contributor
My 870 with a 20" loaded with #4 is the shotgun handy followed by my wifes Mossburg 20ga loaded with #4. If any bad guys get thru that, they will have to wade thru our 1911's with hardball.
By that time it will be a done deal. Either we win or they do.
What can your family do with your weapons of choice? Many of us know how to do it all with training and practice but how about our families? I am fortunate that my wife is deadly with her 1911's, and is quite proficient with her Mossburg OR the Rem 870.
The average home invasion is not an extended firefight, and most of the guns will be clean. So why argue about what is most reliable after 2-300 rounds when most likely there won't be more than 6-7 shots fired?
It seems to me, many of the opinions exressed on this subject are as a result of reading some article rather than actually going out and checking for yourself.
I know A4's has done a lot of shooting and has experience to base his opinions on but the preponderance seem to be armchair warriors when it comes to CQB.
now I feel better................
Ol shy & Bashful
Semper Fi

Good points all.

My comments on the 200-300 rounds fired before considering a weapon reliable go back more to breaking in a 1911 I guess. That said it sure sounds like a good idea if you are using an inertia or gas auto shotgun for self defense. I KNOW my autos are dead nuts reliable because I've put the rounds down range. I know I like my FN over an M2 Benelli because gas has been more reliable for me than inertia. I know because I put the rounds down range. Which brings us back to using a pump.

I've never had a problem with short-stroking an 870 when dove hunting or shooting 3 gun. I sure as hell had a problem shooting it prone though. I wonder how many people that keep a pump shotgun for self defense (not aimed at you Rock) have even tried to shoot it from unusual positions or with one hand. I can empty a gas gun with one hand, right or left handed. I can't do that reliably all the time with an M2. I for sure can't do it with a pump.

My daughter keeps a 20ga 870 for self defense and I sleep better for it.

These are great discussions. I always learn something from them.
 

CalamityJean

I know which way the wind shines!
Shotguns are great for about 4 rounds, then your really starting to think about what your about to do (Combat reload, drop and go to a handgun.... run).

Thats why I've been saving for a Taurus Judge. Something I can grab easily from under the mattress. The 2.5" barrel version loads a .410 (and .45 colt ammo) shell and throws a wide spread for such a short distance. I'd get 5 shots with the rapid fire of a revolver coupled with the punch of a shotgun. Such a nasty little thing.

Its worth a google, or check out the blurb on wikipedia:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taurus_Judge
 

GO_AV8_DevilDog

Round 2...
Contributor
Speaking of over kill, IMHO using a 3.5 inch or even a magnum 2 3/4 or 3 in shell as a home defense round is way WAY overkill. I probably can put 2 maybe 3 Federal Reduced Recoil 00 buckshot loads into a target before you can even stop the muzzle rise from a 3.5 in shell.


With a little more research on the claim, it seems that many people seem to echo your sentiment.

There may be something to this "loading 2 3/4 shells" thing.

Any excuse to hit the range is a good one.
 
A 12GA short barreled shotgun is the most versatile home defense weapon. IMO, it is easier to be accurate with shotgun, regardless of experience. The choices of rounds gives one a customizable magazine for defense.

One could load up buckshot, bird shot, slugs and even sabotted slugs in the same magazine if needed.

As far as firepower, a sabot slug is as afffective as anything on the market for taking down an intruder.
 

Spekkio

He bowls overhand.
Couple of points:

On my first time ever going to the range, it was very easy for me to hit the target with a handgun at 5 yards every single time. I'm sure that my breathing, form, etc. was far from perfect. At these close ranges, the amount that one has to aim accurately with a handgun vs. spray and pray with a shotgun is being grossly exaggerated. At those distances, you could draw and shoot from the hip with a handgun and put a hole in the perp's chest most of the time.

Secondly, the guy robbing your house is probably not looking to harm you. Most (not all) home robbers do so unarmed, and they try to get in and out without you knowing -- if they even do the deed while you're around. Also, most (not all) home robbers are going to be operating solo, or with 1-2 other guys. The likelihood that a stranger is coming into your home armed with the intent to sneak into your bedroom and shoot you is very, very low. Therefore, the higher round capacity of an AR is moot at this point. You probably aren't going to get into a drawn-out firefight, and you're not going to have to shoot a ton of people down. It all comes down to what you think handles better in rooms that are 10-20 ft wide and narrow hallways.
 

Rocketman

Rockets Up
Contributor
...the higher round capacity of an AR is moot at this point. You probably aren't going to get into a drawn-out firefight, and you're not going to have to shoot a ton of people down. .....

That's kind of like arguing that we don't need the F35 because the current threat doesn't require it don't you think?

1st rule of winning a gun fight is to bring a gun. The second rule is to bring enough gun.........:D

As far as firepower, a sabot slug is as afffective as anything on the market for taking down an intruder.

and his brother 3 houses down the street.

There may be something to this "loading 2 3/4 shells" thing.

Any excuse to hit the range is a good one.

Absolutely and while you are there check out the Federal 00 buck round with Flight Control. Look for "flight control" words on the box. It's nothing but a very good cup type wad that keeps the buckshot groups very tight indeed. Almost too tight for across the room ranges. It's not a low recoil round but if you have a shotgun with a very open choke or very short barrel it's a great choice.
 

ryan1234

Well-Known Member
my choice...the Bren:
Lock_Stock.jpg



on a serious note...

For my house... and I'm sure it varies depending on the landscape. I like the flexibility of a handgun. Operate it one hand... shoot reasonably accurate in which ever position. Seems a little better for me for the 'billards' of engagement vice putting a longer barrel through a doorway. A good .45 hollow point will generally do the trick...and there are still light options for the weapons.

'course so would a "D-E...point five oh"

but the ultimate weapon I'd choose is the one I'm most comfortable and proficient with...
 

Picaroon

Helos
pilot
Thats why I've been saving for a Taurus Judge. Something I can grab easily from under the mattress. The 2.5" barrel version loads a .410 (and .45 colt ammo) shell and throws a wide spread for such a short distance. I'd get 5 shots with the rapid fire of a revolver coupled with the punch of a shotgun. Such a nasty little thing.

Its worth a google, or check out the blurb on wikipedia:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taurus_Judge
I recommend you check out this review of it.
http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot41.htm

He seems to think it's an insufficient defense platform.
 

Spekkio

He bowls overhand.
1st rule of winning a gun fight is to bring a gun. The second rule is to bring enough gun.........
Right, and 12-15 rounds of semi-auto handgun fire or a handful of shotgun shells is enough gun.
 

CalamityJean

I know which way the wind shines!
I recommend you check out this review of it.
http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot41.htm

He seems to think it's an insufficient defense platform.

Nice site! However, as it has been discussed at length in here, the close quarters of a house don't require aim beyond the length of a bedroom or hallway. While the penetration from a distance of 15 yards is pitiful, a 10 foot shot aimed at the face should do all damage I need done. If that doesn't work, the crowbar under my windowsill will suffice ;).

They have also upgraded the Judge since to fit a 3" shell. I have a soft spot for the snub nose since I grew up shooting my Mom's S&W .38 special.
 

FlyinRock

Registered User
True, IF you can place rounds on target. MISSES DONT COUNT. Geez that sounds like a title for a magazine,,, SWAT circa 1982?
Having a lot of rounds tends to make one careless with accuracy. OTOH, if you only have 2 rounds, will it make you more specific on when to shoot and where?
Again, what will a family member do if you aren't there to defend your castle? If they haven't had any training, it won't matter if you have 10k rounds for every gun in the house. These arguments have been going on for many years with predictable comments and conclusions.
At the very least, it makes one think about what might work as opposed to what does. Every incident is different and only regular training can prepare anyone for the eventuality.
Oh... You mean like practicing emergency prodedures in airplanes? damn..
never thought of it like that...hmmmmm <gggg>
Merry Christmas and happy and safe New Year to you all
Semper fi
Rocky
 

Bevo16

Registered User
pilot
About a year ago there was a video going around the net of a home invasion that happened in Pheonix. Two armed men come running in through the garage, and the home owner defended his place with an AR. IIRC, he wounded several of the attackers and may have even gotten the guy who was waiting in the car as a get away driver.

IMHO, if you are planning on only falling victim to the thief that is going to come in alone and only wants your stuff, then don't even buy a gun. It is probably only going to get stolen from you, and you are not going to be mentally prepared to handle a situation where you are required to use it.

I believe that if you are going to arm yourself with the goal of defending your home, you need to have a realistic plan (including possible threats) and know how you are going to defend yourself.

How are you going to react when someone starts kicking your door in (or is already in your house). How quickly can you get to your weapon? Is that get-away driver going to hear shots and haul ass, or are you going to be ready for him too when he comes in to help his buddies? Are you going to be reloading your 5 shot pistol with mini-shotgun shells when the 2nd wave comes in?

Personally, I have 3 weapons located in different parts of my house that I can get to quickly if I need to. I shoot (on average) 100 rounds a week.

There are a lot of ways to skin this cat and "be ready". Weapon choice is important, but will quickly become useless if you don't have a plan and/or don't know how to operate the weapon. Virtually every time I go to the range there is someone in there who is shooting a pistol that they bought 5 years ago, has no doubt been sitting in their nightstand, and they can't hit center mass from 15 feet. How the hell is that person going to defend their house in the middle of the night?

If someone thinks that having a gun is going to help them sleep at night, send them to their doctor and have them get a script for Ambien. Hope defense starts with midset and is backed up with training and planning.

Pardon me while I check my dry good stores, count ammo, and keep a lookout for black helicopters.
 
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