Selecting in a week & still unsure...any regrets out there from those already winged?

[smoke_screen]

Hello,

I am almost finished with Primary and will be selecting within the next week or two. I was just wondering if anyone who currently counts themself as a member of a naval aviation community could give me some advice (i.e. spouses included!). Do you have any regrets? Would you have made a different choice if you knew then what you know now?

If you can believe it, I don't have any preference right now. I think I have the grades to at least put jets as an option, but I am definitley not leaning toward that right now for any reason.

Becasue I am unsure, I make it a point to ask every instructor I fly with exactly what they flew and how they liked it.

I have, WITHOUT QUESTION, heard a disproportionatley higher number of disgruntled P-3 pilots than any other community. (Among the IP's that is...) A lot of complaints about decreasing hours, too many politics, and qualification standards.

Helo guys seem pretty happy with their choice, but I have heard some talk about putting in a tacair package b/c they don't like their mission too much or they don't like the civilian outlook for retired helo pilots.

I have only talked to a few jet pilots, and they have jokingly made comments like, "hope you don't want a family," or "carrier landings are worth every one of my 4 divorces." In reality, I am not sure I have a legitimate chance at jets anyway, so this probably doesn't need too much explaining.

Bottom line, would anyone change their selection of they could go back? Is anyone still disappointed about getting "stuck" with helos? Do you have any advice for me?

I literally have no preference right now and what you write could make the difference...

Thanks a lot!

 

[EODDave]

In jets and would not trade it for anything. Its also not as hard as everyone in primary makes it out to be. The attitude here is that if you made it this far, then we will help you as much as we can. Great learning environment and what a blast to fly!

 

[bch]

Was one of those wierdo's who wanted helos from the beginning.... IT IS AWESOME!!

 

[smoke_screen]

EODDave,

That is great to hear; I have never heard that before. What in particular has made you glad you chose/got jets?



bch,

I seem to hear that a lot, (that helos are awesome to fly) but really only among people who really wanted to go that direction. Is anyone surprised about how fun the community is or plesantly surprised about the career opportunities? I am kind of just looking for any reason to start homing in on one particular community.

 

[Banjo33]

I think either (helo's or jets) would be a lot of fun. I'm in jets now, put it as my first choice, and wonder frequently how much fun it would be flying helo's. Don't get me wrong, it's cool as hell flying around in a jet...but flight school is LONG! I've been here a year and am only a little over half-way through. In late February, while on Det in the Keys, I ran into a guy I had went to TBS with and whom selected out of primary the selection before me and was finishing up the CH-53 rag. He's off in the fleet now, I'm sure...I've still got 2 years to go! The length of flight training is the only turn off I can think of. Although, I have NO desire to go Maritime....just doesn't interest me at all.
I guess what I'm trying to say is...I have no idea what to tell you! I doubt you'll regret whatever you get and will enjoy whatever it is you fly immensely!

 

[EODDave]

The jet community is just awesome. The instructors treat you like your just one of the guys. Unlike primary where there is a huge distinction between IP and Stud. I have only seen one guy attrite from here. So the 20% attrition rate rumor is complete BS. This community is why I joined the Navy.

The old T-2 / T-45 syllabus was long.... I mean I've heard of guys being here for over 2 years. The only syllabus now is TS. It is about a year long. The first four months are basically ground school and a bunch of sims. Alot of instrument flying, but you get to do about 3-4 cross countries to wherever you want to go. The jet is a blast to fly. Solo's are unreal. After you get through with the instrument stuff, then it gets really fun. Low level flying at some serious speed. Forms, weaps, acm. I mean come on. Can any other intermd/advanced program offer you what jets can? For some guys that love helo's thats great. But for me, its jets. I am married with two kids and I havent had a problem with study time etc.. I look at it this way. If I'm going to the boat, I am going on my own terms in something that I can get shot off the front with. Also the longer that you are in training, the longer your with your family on a daily basis. I mean we all joined the Navy to fly off of some sort of boat. So, we are all going to be gone. For me, I decided that if I have to be away from my family, I might as well have the most fun that I can.

 

[EA-6B1]

I look at it this way. If I'm going to the boat, I am going on my own terms in something that I can get shot off the front with.

What do you mean by your own terms?

 

[EODDave]

I mean that I'm going to the boat in the platform of my choosing. Not stuck in a community that I did not want to be in. I am not talking bad about anybody elses platform. Its just that I would rather fly a jet off a boat rather than a helo.

 

[smoke_screen]

Dave,

I see your advantages: more relaxed atomsphere and more fun to fly (in your opinion). Would you agree that the volume of material to learn is more and amount of away-from-the-aircraft fun you have is less than in the helo track? It's probably just rumor, but I have heard that since the low-NSS "good time oriented" students are forced into helos, there is a more relaxed atmosphere and less of the cut-throat competitive, bookworm jock atmosphere in helos in general. I am a fan of less egos and more friendly BS'ing. Most of the guys I know who have done well in the program are not good guys and are blatantly cocky; it seems like Kingsville and Meridian could be an arrogance magnet. How do you rate the general atmosphere other than student/IP? Uptight or more relaxed?

Thanks!

 

[squeeze]

You know who spreads the rumors about all jet guys being arrogant and cocky? P3 instructors who were bitter they didn't get jets or have had a bad experience with a jet guy. That's all I heard out of a lot of them -- "jet guys are *******s, etc..."

You know what...when I got down here, the Instructors are way cooler and way more helpful than just about any instructor in primary. It's not a place pilots come to die like primary. IPs here seem to be actually interested in their jobs and seem to care about the students more on average. The students are more helpful to each other and the atmosphere is more relaxed. Overall, jetland is a lot better than T34 land. Funny how the people who have the most to say about something are often the ones who know the least about it.

/arrogant jet @sshole in training

 

[webmaster]

I have, WITHOUT QUESTION, heard a disproportionatley higher number of disgruntled P-3 pilots than any other community. (Among the IP's that is...) A lot of complaints about decreasing hours, too many politics, and qualification standards.

Funny thing is, those same guys are the ones that walked away with 1600 total hours, and maybe 400-600 PIC/"A time" hours.... The hours crunch (the worst of it) is ending, and we are getting more birds on the ramp, in addition to non hour limited birds. In addition to the reduction of pilots in the wardroom (42-30) you are seeing an hour increase. The effects of all this are hurting the upgraders right now that are about to make PPC (or just made it) and don't have enough hours to get the qualification.

Politics depends on your front office and wardroom. VP squadron is supposed to have 8 O4s, but for the last 2 years many squadrons have been overmanned with 14 (like mine), too many "bright ideas in search of NAM and the coveted 1 of 3 on the fitrep". We had a bad group go through, but on the flip side, we have had some oustanding O4s that actually gave a **** about the JOs and mentored/fostered you along.

Qualification as mentioned by zab in another thread is a daunting task. We are the jack of all trades, and study everything from strike, ISR, battlegroup ops to ASW, that in many cases it is difficult to get it all down. Couple that with the trend of some squadrons to add another board to the process (a 3P board for light, limits and procedures), and it seems as if all you are doing is studying for the next board.

Ok, all the whining aside (and in many cases I think it is just that, since so many first tour P3 pilots don't realize how good it actually is), you do some amazing flying on deployment and on homecycle with some dets and repos. For those married, over two deployments, I was never out of communications (phone and internet) with the wife and kids. Most of the time, excellent shore accomodations whether it is a 5 star hotel or a BOQ, in addition to per diem. And to end it all, the comraderie of flying with a tactical crew, the jokes you play on each other and fun you have out in town, and the pride of working together to track a real world submarine. And damnit, the warpig is a fun and forgiving plane to fly.

Maybe zab can shed some more light and a different perspective.

 

[Wolfpack02]

I gotta agree with squeeze, as a new TS guy at meridian (BIs), I have found all of the IPs to be extremely helpful and cool. Everyone here is trying to get you winged. I'm not sure how the sim instructors are at Kingsville, but up here they are way worse than anything I ever had at Whiting. Even with the sims though, it's worth it.

 

[webmaster]

You know who spreads the rumors about all jet guys being arrogant and cocky? P3 instructors who were bitter they didn't get jets or have had a bad experience with a jet guy. That's all I heard out of a lot of them -- "jet guys are *******s, etc..."

A lot of those guys are the T-notch guys that ended up doing 42 month tours in the P3 squadrons, we were happy to see them leave the VP Fleet squadrons. Maybe the trends have changed, but predominantly among my peers ahead and behind me, we all had jet grades, and we ended up where we wanted to go. When I went through primary, the P3 IPs were the laid back instructors that SNAs hoped they flew with, and most of the marine helo IPs were the ones to dread. Guess times have changed. We also have the last of the jet attrite guys who got offered to go P3s, alas no more, P3s are only making room for S3 transition bubbas.... I AM curious to see how the attitude changes on 29 MAY if for example the 737 is selected as the replacement.

 

[Banjo33]

When I went through primary, the P3 IPs were the laid back instructors that SNAs hoped they flew with, and most of the marine helo IPs were the ones to dread.

That was my experience too. On average, my grades were substantially higher with P3 guys as well.

 

[smoke_screen]

Great info...

Squeeze and Wolfpack,

That could be the case... there does seem to be some angst toward jet guys among IPs, I just can't tell if it is out of jealousy or experience. Who would know better than you? Thanks for your experience!

Webmaster,

Thanks a ton for really braking down my question. In all honesty, the first positive things I have heard about the p3 community since I have been in Primary. The one constant among the cynical p3 instructors is the "politics." I have asked what they meant by constantly using the word politics, and almost universally they mention 0-4's. Specifically the fact that somehow an 0-4 p3 pilot had to suck **** in order to get where they are whereas a 04 in the helo community somehow has been able to keep it real. They say it is impossible to understand w/o experiencing, but that p3-specific POLITICS is the reason they are not staying in the navy. I have probably heard the same story from 15-20 IPs.

Your comments about quality of life for married pilots are important to me, b/c I plan on being married within the year.

I have heard, (again the infamous "heard") that jet guys have harder family lives for some reason, mostly b/c they are always qualifying or something. Who knows really.

Thanks again for anyone helping me make this decision.