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Rotary Wing Roundup (Helos at work in Maritime Environment)
- Thread starter HeyJoe
- Start date
Depends on your community. One 2P cruise and one HAC cruise is a good guideline. In a HSC(exp) squadron it was VERY odd to see someone not do a HAC cruise. But in HS squadrons, depending on your timing you might only cruise once when you're with the squadron.
I can only speak first hand about HSC(exp), but yes. You'll generally do a H2P cruise, and a HAC cruise (or desert for either or both). SOMEtimes, if one of those dets is short and/or you went on det RIGHT away, and had a short time at HG between dets, you may do a 3rd det, but that's rare.
Talking with HSC(CVN) guys, it sounds like they are similar... in that they'll do a 2P cruise and HAC cruise. That being said, you aren't as in control of timing and deployment like exp squadrons. We generally make HAC, get our LVL III qual for the det we go on and go out when we're qualled. CVN squadrons are just another part of the airwing, so you'll go when the boat goes, do your training/boards etc on deployment. That's a whole 'nother animal that I'll let a CVN guy fill you in on.
To add to Otto's post, most HS/HSC(Airwing) will do two cruises. You should be a HAC during your second cruise. Your first cruise you may be an H2P or PQM depending on how soon prior to deployment you arrived in the squadron.
I know of a few who have only done 1 deployment during a JO tour, but they are rare.
As for Level Quals (mission quals) you should be Level III in either Strike or Sea Combat (or whatever they call them now) for your HAC cruise. You may be Level III in both, but it all depends on timing and your front office (not to mention your performance thus far in your squadron).
If you are one of the front runners you can expect to be offered the opportunity for more quals. If you are a 'pack player' then you can expect to attain fewer quals than some of your peers. You performance goes a long way in determining who gets Level III/IV quals in a squadron.
Besides the mission, the one difference I've seen between the EXP and CVN is that EXP tends to want you to have your H2P qual prior to your first deployment. I know folks who had an H2P board 3-4 months after getting to a squadron. The airwing squadrons take a different view, you will get your H2P board in whatever timeframe they have determined sufficient. You can expect it to between 6-9 months for most squadrons.
This is a readiness-driven thing in the EXP world. When we ship a Det, they have to already be qualified to perform the mission(s) for which they are deployed. We don't often have the luxury of meeting the minimum qualified crew requirements (typically 2 combat ready crews for a two bird detachment) and still having "left over" pilots / crewmen with few / no quals. It's not better or worse than CVN, just different, since we Det rather than deploy the whole squadron. The key downfall for us (and a plus for CVN) is that people can get quals that they aren't fully prepared to handle ... hence the adage, "There's a difference between dudes with quals and qualified dudes."
That being said, it depends on your mission requirement. We left on our det with 3 HACs (one of them OIC) and 3 PQMs. I made H2P a month into det (5 months after reporting in the squadron). That was considered a bit later than most. In fact, there used to be a 3 month limit on 2P that got extended to 6 months soon after I arrived.
But for EXP squadrons, we make HACs faster and my squadron is especially fast. My buddy who got to the squadron after me, got the plane guard det (a LOT of hours) got his 500 on det, came back and instead of going on post-det leave, stayed back and hit the HAC prep hard made HAC after 11 months in the command. I'm going to hit it at about the 13-14 month mark, which from what I understand is a LOT faster than most squadrons. I'll be a JG HAC on my HAC cruise until about 2 months before the end of det.
Otto, how do you legally do operational missions if you're not a 2P? Is the Sierra SuperDuperHawk different? I'm not asking what you are actually capable of, just what you can legally do per the pub. For example, according to our Natops, I don't think we were legally supposed to be conducting operations in Haiti with two of our crews because we had 2 PQMs (one on each crew). Of course the PQMs each had over 2000 hours, but per the pub, we were "wrong."*
*Note, the new SuperHawk has since changed this, so that may be the answer to my question.
*Note, the new SuperHawk has since changed this, so that may be the answer to my question.
Per our NATOPS you only need to be a PQM for utility and SAR missions.
For a tactical mission (such as HVBSS) you'd need an LVL 2 copilot for that particular mission set.
phrogpilot73
Well-Known Member
This is one thing I've never understood about the Navy... Not trying to be a dick - but why the huge differentiation between PQM and 2P? In the Phrog world (and I'm using this as an example, because the T/M/S mirrors that of the old HC community, which ties in to the new HSC community) we left the RAG as a 2P. You can't tell me that the mission sets are all THAT much more sporty than the old HC world (minus the ability to fire a HF).
Yeah, that's what "ours" says, too, but it's a change from the previous version. I'm just curious if this was normal before SuperHawk, since it wasn't "allowed" per Natops.
I think it ties into what the RAG teaches versus what's been added to the airframe but you can't train with at the RAG. Basically it's a carryover. NVG training at the RAG level is relatively new on the Navy side (it was just starting up when I was a FRP, lo 10 years ago). RAGs didn't have access to FLIRs since they were operational assets that were hard to come by (across the board, not just HSL). Couple that with the squadron CO's wanting to make sure they've got someone in the cockpit who "knows" what they're doing, according to the front office, and that's why. On the HSL side, some squadrons had 2P boards. I just had a couple of flights and I was done, and I was deploying w/in a month of showing up to the squadron. I agree, there's not much difference, but the pub says... And since it's written by HS (who basically bullied HSL into a lot of stuff) and HSL with some HC input, it is law.
It's not all that different... for the mission sets that you will do 95% of the time as an HS/HSC bubba all you need is a PQM and a HAC. It's the high speed tactical stuff that requires more.
That and 2P/2P flights. (smiles simulated)
fify.
^^^
It used to be even worse than that- some squadrons had a PQM syllabus for the new guys fresh from the FRS (something like a couple flights, maybe a sim and an open book test, I can't exactly remember all of the harassment, er, fine details) but before they could start the squadron's H2P syllabus. Go figure.
It used to be even worse than that- some squadrons had a PQM syllabus for the new guys fresh from the FRS (something like a couple flights, maybe a sim and an open book test, I can't exactly remember all of the harassment, er, fine details) but before they could start the squadron's H2P syllabus. Go figure.
I'm guessing you were an East Coast guy. Even HSL-43 didn't have that nonsense, and they were the only squadron on the west coast that did 2P boards when I was coming out of the RAG.
NOTE: Not a -43 guy.