Retired senior officers cashing in

[phrogdriver]

As someone who worked both for DoD as both a reservist and in a for profit contractor then later (and now) for a non-profit FFRDC with my primary customer at the same time with the DoD I'm pretty much sure you just said I'm not ethical enough to separate my two lives and do the right thing for my country.

How do you feel about Senator Mark Kirk serving both in the Senate as a Reserve Commander. How did you feel about John Lehman serving as SecNav and a reserve NFO? How about 75% of the officers in VAQ-209 or any other reserve unit in the DC area that work for the government or a contractor?

Your brush is mighty wide there shipmate.

Did you just "shipmate" me?

You're a flag officer? Sorry to impugn your integrity, SIR!

Run of the mill reservists and such aren't what we're talking about.

The Senator and Sec'y Lehman are/were indeed out of their lanes. They at least needed to revert to a non-drilling status, but that's a separate issue.

Flag officers, just like congressmen, have a disproportionate impact on the decision-making process by virtue of their former positions. People still call them "sir," still offer inappropriate deference to them, etc. They should be forced to take at least a significant breather before working in the defense industry. Having done a shitton of DAU courses, I know about the 1 year waiting period. Everything I've read on the subject says that's usually worked around and is ineffective. At least two, and probably five years off, would let the relationships stale, and ensure that these flags are hired for expertise and leadership, vice connections. I'd be willing to bet that companies have been hiring them for the former, not the latter.

 

[exNavyOffRec]

This thread reminded me of an interview my friend (works for major company) sat in on with a newly retired senior officer (CDR or CAPT), on the resume' one of the accomplishments was "supervised replacement of catapult while underway" he did not know that my friend was a former officer, upon questioning on the amount of work required for catapult replacement and being informed my friend was a former officer it was clarified that it was "supervised troubleshooting to identify replacement parts needed", retired officer was not hired BTW.

 

[Brett327]

Did you just "shipmate" me?

You're a flag officer? Sorry to impugn your integrity, SIR!

Run of the mill reservists and such aren't what we're talking about.

The Senator and Sec'y Lehman are/were indeed out of their lanes. They at least needed to revert to a non-drilling status, but that's a separate issue.

Flag officers, just like congressmen, have a disproportionate impact on the decision-making process by virtue of their former positions. People still call them "sir," still offer inappropriate deference to them, etc. They should be forced to take at least a significant breather before working in the defense industry. Having done a shitton of DAU courses, I know about the 1 year waiting period. Everything I've read on the subject says that's usually worked around and is ineffective. At least two, and probably five years off, would let the relationships stale, and ensure that these flags are hired for expertise and leadership, vice connections. I'd be willing to bet that companies have been hiring them for the former, not the latter.

So, what's the demonstrable impact of the status quo? Show me some actual (vice implied) harm and I'll listen.

 

[phrogdriver]

Brett, you know this isn't going to be something easy to detect with data. The HMMWV case mentioned in the article comes to mind as does the USMC purchase of UH-1Ys, as examples where things are a bit smelly in Denmark. If there were explicit quid pro quos going on, they'd have been caught. At the same time, you know that these individuals are not hired for their technical, tactical, or business expertise. They're hired for their names and their relationships and what that will get the company. I don't blame the company; but I do blame the retired officer.

Would you also contend that we don't need any campaign finance reform or lobbying reform in Congress? Do you think that these congressmen get campaign money while in Congress and lobbying money after because those representatives already supported a cause, or did they support the cause because they got money? Hard to tell, but it makes the system look extremely corrupt.

 

[snake020]

Would you also contend that we don't need any campaign finance reform or lobbying reform in Congress? Do you think that these congressmen get campaign money while in Congress and lobbying money after because those representatives already supported a cause, or did they support the cause because they got money? Hard to tell, but it makes the system look extremely corrupt.

It's hard to take a stance on this when you have current leadership punishing an entire theater, the overwhelming majority who did nothing wrong for the crimes of a few bad apples on one island. Excuse me if I seem off base here, but recent events have clouded (or possibly made more clear) my vision on public sector corruption.

 

[phrogdriver]

In that you are questioning group punishment? I don't think I'm proposing group punishment. Cashing out was never a guarantee for these individuals. This wasn't part of the compensation plan. Implementing a 2-5 year cooling off period would cost nothing, but potentially have huge payoffs.

 

[Pugs]

Did you just "shipmate" me?

I did. I enjoyed it. May do it again.

You're a flag officer? Sorry to impugn your integrity, SIR!

Nope in no way, unless it's that I waved the BS flag occasionaly

Run of the mill reservists and such aren't what we're talking about.

The Senator and Sec'y Lehman are/were indeed out of their lanes. They at least needed to revert to a non-drilling status, but that's a separate issue.

Flag officers, just like congressmen, have a disproportionate impact on the decision-making process by virtue of their former positions. People still call them "sir," still offer inappropriate deference to them, etc. They should be forced to take at least a significant breather before working in the defense industry. Having done a shitton of DAU courses, I know about the 1 year waiting period. Everything I've read on the subject says that's usually worked around and is ineffective. At least two, and probably five years off, would let the relationships stale, and ensure that these flags are hired for expertise and leadership, vice connections. I'd be willing to bet that companies have been hiring them for the former, not the latter.

What experience do you have with the situation you describe? I served with Mark Kirk both CONUS and overseas and I don't think there was a sir in sight. He did his job as our spy and actually was able to deliver insights far beyond the normal direct commission guy. My experience working with several retired SES and one flag is that they are fierce defenders of ethics. None of them wanted anything to do with acquisition and in one case he recused himself from the program entirely.

I don't buy the mysterious influence argument. I've not seen it in the 15 years at least I've worked in the IC. To be fair I've only worked on two large acquisitions but I work for an FFRDC on the side of the government evaluating the bids but I work with for profit contractors every day.

 

[Spekkio]

Phrog, nothing wrong with someone being hired for connections. Often one's job performance and ability to make connections are correlated; it would be. difficult for a career shitbag to make GO/Flag, let alone get others to vouch for his job performance.

The recent headlines of guys getting fired for not keeping mr. winky under the tent really doesn't demonstrate that they were poor officers, just that they didn't have the private life moral values that the DoD seeks.

 

[The Chief]

... being leveraged into a lucrative second careers. GOs, SES, and members of congress should have strict rules about who they can work for ... .

Absoluute BULLSHIT. Have often heard it, but usually from the dipsticks that have no knowledge, skills nor abilities, simply egos driven by envy. Why should I have been penalized? I gained experience from bottom to top of programs, from hands on operational experience, thru engineering and high level policy development. Makes one sick.

 

[phrogdriver]

Tell me what you really think. Please. Don't be shy.

Below a rank certain level, the contracting thing doesn't bug me too much, even though on a personal level I've resolved NOT to be one of those guys who hangs up the uniform on Friday then comes back to the base in a company polo shirt and dockers on Monday. Obviously, hiring a military pilot helps when designing military planes, for example. This is true for both the technical side, e.g. hiring former military technicians to develop the maintenance pubs, and the tactical side, e.g. "the aircraft is going to be employed in this manner in combat so change X, Y, and Z."

I don't see flag officers providing either one of these types of expertise. They aren't businessmen, so they aren't providing managerial expertise, either. They're shills.

 

[Pugs]

I don't see flag officers providing either one of these types of expertise. They aren't businessmen, so they aren't providing managerial expertise, either. They're shills.

How many have you met, worked with or know of in this category? My experience, and clearly some others here, do not find your post to be accurate.

 

[Brett327]

I don't see flag officers providing either one of these types of expertise. They aren't businessmen, so they aren't providing managerial expertise, either. They're shills.

So your contention here is that someone who has made it to Flag rank has done so without managerial expertise? By this point in their careers, they've probably run a squadron, an air wing, perhaps a carrier or strike group, then likely some significant part of a large staff organization or program office.

Your contention doesn't match reality.

 

[phrogdriver]

Pugs, you're right, I don't have personal experience with contractors of flag rank. I base my opinion on extrapolating what I have seen with contractors in general and flag officers. So, I'll definitely admit that others have more personal experience in these matters.

Brett, I don't dispute that flags have managed organizations. However, they are not businessmen. There are many individuals with more relevant experience who could consult or work for these firms. In many cases these flag officers are there to lend their names, connections, and reputations, to things that may or may not deserve it.

 

[Spekkio]

Brett, true, but to play devil's advocate, the leadership skillset required to succeed as a senior military officer is significantly different than the skillset required to succeed as an upper-level business executive. If an executive at Apple decided to prohibit his employees from drinking after 2200 and halt all productivity for 2-3 days to give power points on why drinking and driving is bad to curtail turnover costs from DUIs, he wouldn't have a job much longer.

It sounds like the phrog is arguing that DoD contracted companies hire flag officers partially in order to create a sales bridge using the flag's experience and credibility, which allows the company to push new products onto Uncle Sam without the scrutiny an O-4 or O-5 would get pushing the same product.

 

[C420sailor]

This should be a crime...should have strict rules...I'd like a lifetime ban...I'd settle for a 5 year ban...

I'm starting to see a common thread in your posts...

Smiles n shit, of course