Retired senior officers cashing in

[phrogdriver]

This should be a crime. Just as with congressmen and lobbying, public service is being leveraged into a lucrative second careers. GOs, SES, and members of congress should have strict rules about who they can work for. I'd like a lifetime ban on employment with business that do work with the individual's former department. In the GOs' case, that'd be DoD. Congressmen? Anyone who does business with government, period. I'd settle for a 5 year ban, though.

 

[Spekkio]

I'm okay with it as long as they can't "double dip" retirement packages.

Really this wouldn't be an issue if federal governent wages weren't so inflated. For example, the average salary of a Congressman being over $100k/year and the POTUS making $400k/yr for the rest of his life than I am with people who retire from AD and continue to work in the federal government. If it's public service, then why are they getting paid more than the median salary range for their district?

I'm sure if a retired GO were working for the DOD at 40-60k/yr vice well north of 6 figures and didn't have arguably more influence over military policy and resource allocation than when they were AD, no one would really bat an eye.

 

[phrogdriver]

I don't think we're talking 40-60k jobs. If they want to work for DoD, fine, just not contractors that work for DoD.

Actually, I don't have trouble with anyone making lots of money. I just don't want it to come from corrupting the system and getting government to buy stuff it doesn't need.

The wages of the POTUS and congress are just fine. Considering his responsibilities, POTUS is well underpaid. Yeah, it's service, but you wouldn't do your job for peanuts, either. In any case, they (former senior military and civilian officials) can write books, give speeches, sell their bodies outside of Las Vegas, whatever--as long as they don't trade their influence for government largesse by lobbying or "consulting."

 

[Spekkio]

You think someone who makes over $100k/year to argue about stuff for approximately 90-100 days/year "just fine?" I don't disagree that the president has a lot of responsibility, but it's public service so he shouldn't be in the top 1% of earners. Additionally, his salary doesn't account for all his other benefits, like taxpayer funded transportation, full healthcare coverage, taxpayer funded mansion to live in, etc. Even his previous salary of $200k/year put him into the top 5% of earners, and his family wouldn't exactly be going hungry.

I don't have a problem with GOs (or anyone else for that matter) making lots of money, either, if they do it in the corporate world. If, for example, Google wants to pay a retired GO $200k/year to revamp its managerial processes, good for them. I have a problem with them making a lot of money from taxpayers by taking influential positions at DoD contracted firms. The money/influence goes hand-in-hand in this case.

 

[HAL Pilot]

I'm okay with it as long as they can't "double dip" retirement packages.

This is BS. If someone earned a retirement from one job/career he deserves to collect it even if he's taking starting another job/career in the same field. He's earned it, it's his, end of story.

And as much as I talk bad about "Big Navy", I am going to assume that someone who made it to the top has the interest of the Navy at heart. I am going to assume that they would not push a piece of crap that doesn't work or puts sailors at risk. These guys do provide a service because of their access.

This is no different than a civilian CEO leaving one company and going to work for another. But in this instance, the retired Admiral/General probably has more integrity and probably cares more about recipients of this "product".

It's capitalism pure and simple.

 

[Spekkio]

It's not "BS" and certainly isn't unprecedented. For example, if you retire in the state of NY from a career that gets paid by the state or county, and thus collect from the NY State and Local Retirement System, you are not eligible to get a second retirement benefit package from within the state of NY. For example, a county police officer in NYS cannot retire, become a teacher in NYS, and then collect a second pension package. Even if you transition careers, it counts as working for the same "company."

In this case, going from the Army to DoD are both working for the same "company," the federal government, and thus should only collect one retirement package from the federal government. I don't know if it actually works like this or not on the federal level, but if it doesn't this could be enough to discourage the practice.

 

[phrogdriver]

Spekkio--if you meet the separate requirements for retirement, e.g. 20 years+ at two different places, even within the gov't, it's good to go. You earned it. Whatever. Different subject.

And yes, I think congressional pay is just fine. You don't want these guys to need independent weath to serve. Pay them double. I don't care. Where we're getting screwed is when they turn around and work for K Street the second they leave office.

HAL--I wouldn't trust that flag officer anymore than I'd trust a sergeant. Probably less. He might not be out to screw the Navy/MC, but he damn sure is going to put his employer's interests first, as he has a fiduciary duty to. If these companies' products stood on their own merits, they wouldn't need flags to shill for them. It's not the same as switching from one company to another. It's going from serving the country to serving the dollar. There's nothing wrong with either. They just don't mix well.

 

[Pugs]

HAL--I wouldn't trust that flag officer anymore than I'd trust a sergeant. Probably less. He might not be out to screw the Navy/MC, but he damn sure is going to put his employer's interests first, as he has a fiduciary duty to. If these companies' products stood on their own merits, they wouldn't need flags to shill for them. It's not the same as switching from one company to another. It's going from serving the country to serving the dollar. There's nothing wrong with either. They just don't mix well.

As someone who worked both for DoD as both a reservist and in a for profit contractor then later (and now) for a non-profit FFRDC with my primary customer at the same time with the DoD I'm pretty much sure you just said I'm not ethical enough to separate my two lives and do the right thing for my country.

How do you feel about Senator Mark Kirk serving both in the Senate as a Reserve Commander. How did you feel about John Lehman serving as SecNav and a reserve NFO? How about 75% of the officers in VAQ-209 or any other reserve unit in the DC area that work for the government or a contractor?

Your brush is mighty wide there shipmate.

 

[Brett327]

Another issue is where would you draw the line? Is it only bad if it's a retired GO/FO? What about an O4 that gets out after serving his commitment and wants to work as a contractor? There's a balance to be had here and (as with all things) there's potential for abuse, but there are rules in place which regulate this kind of thing. I had a Skipper who ended up working for Boeing once he retired. He had to jump through a lot of hoops (and wait a year or so) in order to comply with the various DoD and Boeing ethics regs.

Having experienced military folks migrate to the defense sector has value for industry and the military. Punish people who violate the law or ethical standards, but don't impugn the entire thing. Baby, bathwater, blah, blah, blah.

 

[KBayDog]

Punish people who violate the law or ethical standards, but don't impugn the entire thing.

Brett, this kind of thinking is going to prematurely end your career.

The preferred technique of military leadership (c.2012) is to quickly and severely punish the masses for the transgressions of the few. (Never sweat the second- and third-order effects of your knee-jerk reactions, either. Unintended consequences be damned!)

 

[snake020]

So what is an appropriate post military career for a retired flag officer? Why should they be limited to industry outside of their core competency?

 

[Brett327]

Brett, this kind of thinking is going to prematurely end your career.

The preferred technique of military leadership (c.2012) is to quickly and severely punish the masses for the transgressions of the few. (Never sweat the second- and third-order effects of your knee-jerk reactions, either. Unintended consequences be damned!)

Call me a retroactive innovator. To the extent that it is within my power to do so, I'm running my organization with old school principles.

 

[Renegade One]

I agree with Brett (Oh,the humanity!) on this.

Most All of the retired GO/FOs I ever worked with in my post-Navy career were worth their pay...and mostly "worth it" to the government customer, not their employer. ALL rejected out-of-hand the idea of selling "bright idea widgets" to the customer. Usually, they were the "final line of defense" against over-enthusiastic engineers and marketing-types who wanted the GO/FO to "go sell this thing..it could be a game-changer! And we need to book the orders this quarter..."

They were the ones who could throttle back the enthusiastic (but inexperienced and uninvolved) folks who just KNEW that if the Services would "buy" this hot new thingie, they'd eventually find a use for it. They could most convincingly tell the CAGR-motivated business sector EVP that s/he was barking up the wrong tree, or trying to sell stuff that no one ever asked for...and can't use (for a variety of reasons). Sometimes...but rarely..."breakthrough technologies/capabilities" are great. Usually, it's better to know the customer, understand the current operational environment and requirements, and be able to articulate what the most compelling needs truly are.

Would you rather all the GO/FOs go into Investment Banking or the Hotel Industry? They actually know shit-all about either. They are better used within their life's swim lane.

 

[helolumpy]

Brett, this kind of thinking is going to prematurely end your career.

The preferred technique of military leadership (c.2012) is to quickly and severely punish the masses for the transgressions of the few. (Never sweat the second- and third-order effects of your knee-jerk reactions, either. Unintended consequences be damned!)

You have no idea what you're talking about. Now, put down your beer, it's now prohibited for all military personnel everywhere in the world. I think I saw you check out a female once; she may be married, so you obviously are an adulterer. You better report for mandatory 6 hour reprogramming.... eeer, I mean GMT tomorrow at 0730!

 

[phrogpilot73]

They were the ones who could throttle back the enthusiastic (but inexperienced and uninvolved) folks who just KNEW that if the Services would "buy" this hot new thingie, they'd eventually find a use for it.

Funny thing is, I found myself doing this exact thing... As a former Capt (NOT GO), making a whole shitload less money. Morals, ethics, core values? They don't increase over time and rank. You have them or you don't. As evidenced by several GOs who demonstrated their wholesale lack thereof...