Racism in the Military

[nodropinufaka]

When I replied to your post, that is all there was. Then you edited it. So I edited mine and it is a bit longer now.

yes. I’m a minority. Back at the beginning I talked about how one of my first interactions after commissioning was with a senior officer who accused me of only being in my designator and commissioned because I was a minority. He had zero idea of my background or education. All he saw was the color of my skin and how I looked.

and before he even said any of that to me he was a complete a hole to me and to me only cause he felt I didn’t belong.

ive met enough people like that in the military and that’s as a commissioned officer. Imagine how it feels as the lower enlisted.

Imagine the opportunities people miss because guys like that think certain races or minorities deserve it.

 

[nodropinufaka]

Anyway, I’m not trying to argue or be mean @FinkUFreaky

Just was hoping to show you that there is racism and some people do feel it. Even today.

 

[FinkUFreaky]

yes. I’m a minority. Back at the beginning I talked about how one of my first interactions after commissioning was with a senior officer who accused me of only being in my designator and commissioned because I was a minority. He had zero idea of my background or education. All he saw was the color of my skin and how I looked.

and before he even said any of that to me he was a complete a hole to me and to me only cause he felt I didn’t belong.

ive met enough people like that in the military and that’s as a commissioned officer. Imagine how it feels as the lower enlisted.

Imagine the opportunities people miss because guys like that think certain races or minorities deserve it.

Anyway, I’m not trying to argue or be mean @FinkUFreaky

Just was hoping to show you that there is racism and some people do feel it. Even today.

I did see your posts earlier. Sounds like that senior officer was an asshole, and likely a racist. I'm not trying to up the ante on you either, it's the internet. I do think people have a lot of opinions, that without properly explaining might EVEN SEEM racist (whether it's statues etc) but actually aren't. Even if their opinion is in the minority of the current public acceptability. Your stories mentioned earlier don't really leave any grey area on whether it was racism.

I think a lot of things can obviously get confused quickly on the internet. Hopefully we can grab a beer together one day.

 

[exNavyOffRec]

yes. I’m a minority. Back at the beginning I talked about how one of my first interactions after commissioning was with a senior officer who accused me of only being in my designator and commissioned because I was a minority. He had zero idea of my background or education. All he saw was the color of my skin and how I looked.

What you experienced from that senior officer really burns me, maybe it is because I know the effort recruiting has been put in to find smart minority candidates to have them apply to join, that is the right way to increase recruiting of minority officer. I can honestly say that every minority or woman that I sent to OCS earned that spot due to their hard work in college, and I would have been happy to work for any one of them.

The unfortunate thing is in civilian recruiting and hiring what was said is a thing, I have friends who recruit for a variety of companies and they have all seen it in one way or another, a hiring manager telling a recruiter "the next hire really needs to be a minority" is a common one they have heard.

Note: in the civilian companies often a minority is anything other than a white male and sometimes white female.

 

[nodropinufaka]

What you experienced from that senior officer really burns me, maybe it is because I know the effort recruiting has been put in to find smart minority candidates to have them apply to join, that is the right way to increase recruiting of minority officer. I can honestly say that every minority or woman that I sent to OCS earned that spot due to their hard work in college, and I would have been happy to work for any one of them.

The unfortunate thing is in civilian recruiting and hiring what was said is a thing, I have friends who recruit for a variety of companies and they have all seen it in one way or another, a hiring manager telling a recruiter "the next hire really needs to be a minority" is a common one they have heard.

Note: in the civilian companies often a minority is anything other than a white male and sometimes white female.

unfortunate someone would behave that way.

But oh well. Life goes on.

Said individual is still in the military. I see him around at my civilian job.

 

[Spekkio]

yea... that’s exactly the problem.

Blindly saying there is no systemic racism in the military and saying things that are clearly racist and wrong is someone’s opinion is the problem that we are facing...

There is a legitimate problem that minorities face Inside the military. Even PACAF just released a video talking about his experiences.

Okay, hold on... being a minority doesn't give you a free pass to accuse the entire military of systemic racism. That's a very serious accusation. You're gonna have to bring some proof beyond a flag officer's talking points.

 

[Hair Warrior]

Okay, hold on... being a minority doesn't give you a free pass to accuse the entire military of systemic racism. That's a very serious accusation. You're gonna have to bring some proof beyond a flag officer's talking points.

He did give some specific examples, in this thread I believe.

 

[Spekkio]

He did give some specific examples, in this thread I believe.

He gave an example of one of the 3,000 O-6s in the Navy.

The keyword here is 'systemic.'

 

[Pags]

Okay, hold on... being a minority doesn't give you a free pass to accuse the entire military of systemic racism. That's a very serious accusation. You're gonna have to bring some proof beyond a flag officer's talking points.

To your point I'd think there'd be a difference between systemic racism and racists. But it would probably come down to the nuance of the definition. From the outside one racist O6 doesn't sound systemic but it's a different answer if that O6 is signing your fitrep.

 

[Spekkio]

I'm not saying that O-6's behavior is okay. I'm saying that it's a completely different problem with different solutions if that O-6 were an example of broader systemic racism rather than someone who slipped between the cracks. I'm also saying it's wrong to accuse an entire organization of systemic racism because of someone's bad experiences.

We've had O-6's who are mysoginists, adulterers, thiefs, imbezzlers, and traitors... probably a murderer somewhere in there.

Indicative of systemic issues? Maybe put together these cases indicate a problem that the promotion screening process didn't weed these guys out, but none of them alone indicates a systemic issue in any particular area.

 

[johnboyA6E]

big difference between systematic racism and witnessing examples of racist individuals or behavior

i have no problem believing that there continue to be plenty of examples of bias, prejudice, and outright white supremacy in today's military. i saw a few first hand during my time on active duty. i would like to think there are fewer now, but i don't know.

what i don't think i've seen any evidence of (and maybe i'm missing it) are examples of 'systematic racism' - ie, black candidates purposely led away from officer recruiting and toward enlisted recruiting based on some implied/unwritten policy, black SNAs purposely graded lower to prevent them from winging, promotion boards purposely passing on otherwise qualified black officers, etc. etc.
<i did see the long thread with the accusations of racism in the VFA rag, perhaps that's an example, perhaps not>

i'm certainly willing to be persuaded, but i've just not seen it - then again maybe that's part of the bigger issue, that some of us just don't see it even if it's right in front of us

 

[squorch2]

i'm certainly willing to be persuaded, but i've just not seen it - then again maybe that's part of the bigger issue, that some of us just don't see it even if it's right in front of us

bell dings softly

 

[nodropinufaka]

Okay, hold on... being a minority doesn't give you a free pass to accuse the entire military of systemic racism. That's a very serious accusation. You're gonna have to bring some proof beyond a flag officer's talking points.

someone posted a study in this thread as well

 

[Pags]

bell dings softly

Honest question: if the definition of "systemic rasicm" is such that people in the system can't see it, how do people in the system (who aren't intending to be racist) fix it if it can't be seen?

If the definition of systemic rasicm is so broad to contain "old white men are racist because they can't not be even if they're trying" then what are we left with?

How do we make it better?

 

[scoolbubba]

Honest question: if the definition of "systemic rasicm" is such that people in the system can't see it, how do people in the system (who aren't intending to be racist) fix it if it can't be seen?

If the definition of systemic rasicm is so broad to contain "old white men are racist because they can't not be even if they're trying" then what are we left with?

How do we make it better?

Shutup, racist.