Racism in the Military

[Flash]

Ahh, but you have just now decided how America has to remember the Civil War (I mean method, inspiration, not actual facts and conclusions). If you have your way, it can't be by visiting a Lee statue and being repulsed, or wondering how a man like him came to make the decisions he did. It can be that even some Back Americans can benefit by viewing the statue and reflect on how far America has come. The conclusion on viewing the statue of Lee does not require one to honor him as a promoter of slavery. Just as likely someone will look at the statue and remember him as the General that got his ass whooped at any number of battles that won the Civil War and ensured abolition of slavery. Makes him a chump. When Charles Barkley was asked about the controversy of removing a confederate statue, he said he had own up around them his entire life and never gave them a thought. Didn't effect him then, doesn't now.

Robert E Lee on what he thought of statues memorializing the Civil War:

“I think it wiser…not to keep open the sores of war but to follow the examples of those nations who endeavored to obliterate the marks of civil strife, to commit to oblivion the feelings engendered.”

“As regards the erection of such a monument as is contemplated, my conviction is, that however grateful it would be to the feelings of the South, the attempt in the present condition of the Country, would have the effect of retarding, instead of accelerating its accomplishment; [and] of continuing, if not adding to, the difficulties under which the Southern people labour.”

“All I think that can now be done, is … to protect the graves [and] mark the last resting places of those who have fallen…”

 

[Brett327]

Here's a database of documented incidents of police brutality just in the past couple weeks. I urge any of you to watch just 20 of these 594 videos and tell me that there isn't reason to reform how we do policing in this country.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet...mlview?pru=AAABcql6DI8*mIHYeMnoj9XWUp3Svb_KZA

 

[Pags]

Who is currently purposely rigging the game against blacks? Let's just get after them. Has to be a large omnipotent organization. Disband that group. Jail the members violating fellow American's constitutional rights. Call them out for what they are. Simple.

Yeah, so that's the rub behind this. It's not one large omnipotent organization that we can simply disband. If there was then it would be easy. I'd recommend you start looking into the history of redlining, gerrymandering, and go from there to see how a lot of the "rigging of the game" has been done at the local level in many areas.

As I mentioned earlier, in many cases we're living with the sins of our fathers and grandfathers which I think makes it hard for people to deal with. They say "it's not my fault" and they're not wrong but that doesn't mean the problem doesn't need to be fixed.

 

[HAL Pilot]

The police, for starters, and that is precisely what is being seriously discussed for the first time in this country. Kinda walked right into that one, didn't you, Wink? Proceed with your circling of the wagons/pearl clutching diatribe. It falls on unsympathetic ears.

The police are rigging the game against blacks? I call bullshit. There are obviously some police discriminating and some police being racist but there is no systematic police racism and the vast majority are doing their jobs professionally and correctly.

According to the FBI, 2925 blacks were murdered in 2018. 2600 by other blacks, 234 by whites, 17 by other races and 74 unknown. The vast majority of blacks are being killed by other blacks.

According to the Wall Street Journal, in 2018 blacks made up 13% of the population yet committed 53% of the homicides. About 25% of those killed by police were black which based on the percent of crime committed by blacks is actually low.

Other statistics:

- More whites and Hispanics die from police homicides than blacks. According to Mac Donald, 12 percent of white and Hispanic homicide deaths were due to police officers, while only four percent of black homicide deaths were the result of police officers.

- Black and Hispanic police officers are more likely to fire a gun at blacks than white officers. This is according to a Department of Justice report in 2015 about the Philadelphia Police Department, and is further confirmed that by a study conducted University of Pennsylvania criminologist Greg Ridgeway in 2015 that determined black cops were 3.3 times more likely to fire a gun than other cops at a crime scene.

- Blacks are more likely to kill cops than be killed by cops. This is according to FBI data, which also found that 40 percent of cop killers are black. According to Mac Donald, the police officer is 18.5 times more likely to be killed by a black than a cop killing an unarmed black person.

Here a chart from the FBI that shows 2018 arrest rates per 100,000 people so it equalizes all races into a homogeneous population. From this, you can see why there are more black encounters with cops.



What happened to George Floyd wasn’t just white cop on black victim. 1 cop was black and 1 cop was Asian.

The problem is with police training and procedures, not institutional racism against blacks. There needs to be a real reform of the system, not just blaming racism. Racism is just one of the many factors.

The biggest issue I think that involves racism in law enforcement is blacks receive harsher and longer sentences than whites do for similar crimes. This is a systematic form of racism that definitely needs corrected. This is not from the police but from the prosecutors and court system.

George Floyd was murdered. That is clear. Whether it was a justified or unjustified killing is for the court and jury to decide based on the evidence. To me, the evidence clearly shows it was blatantly unjustified but I’m not on the jury.

Everything else is being manipulated by all sides to fit their narrative.

 

[wink]

I didnt walk into anything. The police (authority) as the cause of black education, poverty, you name it is predictable. I categorical reject that LE as an institution nationwide is rigged against blacks. That is supported by facts. Facts don't matter though.

George Floyd is being lionized. That his death leads to fruitful change is something I am hoping for. But he is not worthy of sainthood and no father should want his son to be the man Floyd was. But the facts of his life are not to be spoken of. Yet BET has no problem reporting Off Lane had a couple misdemeanors before being hired as a cop. Their headline implies he was a career criminal. In fact Lane, on the job for 4 DAYS had the nerve to tell his superior and training officer who writes his evals that he should let Floyd up, twice. Yet that man is charged with aiding in the death of Floyd.

Most same folks will qualify comments by reminding not all cops are bad. But then argue LE rigs the game against minorities or is systematicly racist. Well thst means all cops. You can't defund their department and fire them while saying they aren't the bad cops. You can't pillory the journalism Dean for including "the good police that keep is safe" in the same post she said she would pray for Floyd and her students and not do damage to the 90+% of LE that do their job properly.

The focus has been shifted away from better policing and individual accountability for actions. That is not good. That is where the rubber meets the road and those are achievable goals in relatively short time frames.

Facts don't matter.

 

[Brett327]

I categorical reject that LE as an institution nationwide is rigged against blacks.

Yes, I know, Wink. You're also the same guy on the Buffalo PD who quit in solidarity with Robert McCabe and Aaron Torgalski, because that old man had it coming, and that's how you roll.

 

[WhiskeySierra6]

Yes, I know, Wink. You're also the same guy on the Buffalo PD who quit in solidarity with Robert McCabe and Aaron Torgalski, because that old man had it coming, and that's how you roll.

I thought at least two of the Officers had come out and said it wasn't in solidarity. They resigned the team because, in their words "We quit because our union said [they] aren’t legally backing us anymore. So why would we stand on a line for the City with no legal backing if something [were to] happen? Has nothing to do with us supporting."

EXCLUSIVE: Two Buffalo Police ERT members say resignation was not in solidarity with suspended officers

Two officers with Buffalo Police's voluntary ERT assignment talk with 7 Eyewitness News to refute claims the team's resignation was done in solidarity with suspended officers.

www.wkbw.com

 

[HAL Pilot]

Yes, I know, Wink. You're also the same guy on the Buffalo PD who quit in solidarity with Robert McCabe and Aaron Torgalski, because that old man had it coming, and that's how you roll.

Once again the facts are being twisted. They quit because the city announced they were no longer paying for any legal protection / representation for members of the ERT or SWAT teams. The police union recommended the members resign to protect themselves from the expense of defending themselves against complaints filed against them.

But don't let the truth get in the way of your snide fake news snippet.

 

[Brett327]

I thought at least two of the Officers had come out and said it wasn't in solidarity. They resigned the team because, in their words "We quit because our union said [they] aren’t legally backing us anymore. So why would we stand on a line for the City with no legal backing if something [were to] happen? Has nothing to do with us supporting."

EXCLUSIVE: Two Buffalo Police ERT members say resignation was not in solidarity with suspended officers

Two officers with Buffalo Police's voluntary ERT assignment talk with 7 Eyewitness News to refute claims the team's resignation was done in solidarity with suspended officers.

www.wkbw.com

Good for them. I'll wait here while the other 55 do the same and publicly repudiate the actions of McCabe and Torgalski.

 

[Flash]

SNARK! 1980...you needed a speech from 1980. Adding to that I did not use the word lie...I used the word myth.

Oh, you wanted more recent examples? How about these good folks in Texas? To their credit, more senior leaders of the party in Texas have condemned them but that isn't just one or two folks doing that, and they are party officials no less.

But hey, at least they aren't railing against liberal democracy! Wait, hold on a sec....“Liberal democracy is little more than a front for the war being waged against us by those who fundamentally despise not only our way of life, but life itself.”

Call it a myth or a lie, there is ample proof that the 'Southern Strategy' was neither.

 

[Flash]

Once again the facts are being twisted. They quit because the city announced they were no longer paying for any legal protection / representation for members of the ERT or SWAT teams. The police union recommended the members resign to protect themselves from the expense of defending themselves against complaints filed against them.

But don't let the truth get in the way of your snide fake news snippet.

Not really. According to the two officers who said they were not resigning in support of the charged officers said it was the union, not the city, that stopped backing them. And last I checked, a government usually doesn't legally defend officers that it has charged with a crime unless count public defenders.

The officers have not publicly come forward to explain the mass resignation. John Evans, president of the Buffalo Police Benevolent Association, told local NBC affiliate WGRZ the reason was "disgust because of the treatment of two of their members, who were simply executing orders."

Another local media outlet, ABC affiliate WKBW, cited a pair of unnamed members of the ERT who contradicted the union's explanation, saying the resignation "has nothing to do with us supporting" the pair of suspended officers. Rather, the resignations, according to one officer, came because the union is not "legally backing us anymore."

Further information appears to back up this claim:

PBA president John Evans was not immediately available for comment, but in an email to PBA members provided to Scripps station WKBW, Evans said that the union would not provide legal defense to officers in any charges linked to the ongoing unrest.
"In light of this, in order to maintain the sound financial structure of the PBA it will be my opinion the PBA NOT to pay for any ERT or SWAT members legal defense related to these protests going forward," Evans' email read. "This Admin in conjunction with DA John Flynn and or JP Kennedy could put a serious dent in the PBA's funds."

But don't let the truth get in the way of your snide fake news snippet.

Yup!

 

[Pags]

George Floyd is being lionized. That his death leads to fruitful change is something I am hoping for. But he is not worthy of sainthood and no father should want his son to be the man Floyd was. But the facts of his life are not to be spoken of. Yet BET has no problem reporting Off Lane had a couple misdemeanors before being hired as a cop. Their headline implies he was a career criminal. In fact Lane, on the job for 4 DAYS had the nerve to tell his superior and training officer who writes his evals that he should let Floyd up, twice. Yet that man is charged with aiding in the death of Floyd.

What does George Floyd's life history or quality have to do with the events surrounding his death? As an American he was supposed to have a right to a fair trial.

 

[HAL Pilot]

Not really. According to the two officers who said they were not resigning in support of the charged officers said it was the union, not the city, that stopped backing them. And last I checked, a government usually doesn't legally defend officers that it has charged with a crime unless count public defenders.



Further information appears to back up this claim:






Yup!

2 Buffalo cops say mass resignations weren't 'show of support,' say they were due to lack legal protection

Two officers with Buffalo Police's voluntary ERT assignment talk with 7 Eyewitness News to refute claims the team's resignation was done in solidarity with suspended officers.

www.ksby.com

More to it than that... the union said they would not pay because the city was not backing up its officers.

"The city, (Erie County District Attorney John Flynn), they're not representing those guys at all. They have to find their own lawyers; they have to come out of pocket."

The union said that the city’s failure to back it’s officers would leave the union in too big a financial risk if it provided the legal representation due to the current war against law enforcement from both the angry mobs and the city administration.

So yes the union decided to no longer provide the representation but that decision was caused by the city not supporting its police. The union basically told its officers to not put themselves at a higher level of risk voluntarily doing extra duties for a city administration that hates them.

 

[Pags]

I didnt walk into anything. The police (authority) as the cause of black education, poverty, you name it is predictable. I categorical reject that LE as an institution nationwide is rigged against blacks. That is supported by facts. Facts don't matter though.

George Floyd is being lionized. That his death leads to fruitful change is something I am hoping for. But he is not worthy of sainthood and no father should want his son to be the man Floyd was. But the facts of his life are not to be spoken of. Yet BET has no problem reporting Off Lane had a couple misdemeanors before being hired as a cop. Their headline implies he was a career criminal. In fact Lane, on the job for 4 DAYS had the nerve to tell his superior and training officer who writes his evals that he should let Floyd up, twice. Yet that man is charged with aiding in the death of Floyd.

Most same folks will qualify comments by reminding not all cops are bad. But then argue LE rigs the game against minorities or is systematicly racist. Well thst means all cops. You can't defund their department and fire them while saying they aren't the bad cops. You can't pillory the journalism Dean for including "the good police that keep is safe" in the same post she said she would pray for Floyd and her students and not do damage to the 90+% of LE that do their job properly.

The focus has been shifted away from better policing and individual accountability for actions. That is not good. That is where the rubber meets the road and those are achievable goals in relatively short time frames.

Facts don't matter.

I think you're missing a few pieces of the discussion wrt LE's treament of the black community that you should know based on your LE history. Beyond federal law enforcement there isn't a "national LE." It's all local LE often at the county/city/town level. Most of these small orgs are independent from each other. So again, there's no omnipotent organization that can be disbanded to instantly cure all the ills. In the discussion of "LE's bias against the black community" the point isn't that individual cops are bad people*. It's that cops are being trained to policies and procedures that end up unfairly affecting the black community. The individual beat cop isn't being given the training, tools, or resources to police fairly. Here's a decent article and accompanying interview with the former Camden, NJ Police Chief about how Camden was able to admit it had a problem, determine which policies were bad, determine what were better policies, implement those policies, and then see a positive effect within the community:
https://www.npr.org/sections/live-u...n-n-j-force-police-need-consent-of-the-people

*Broad brush here people. I know there are crooked and racist cops out there but I think most Cops aren't trying to be bad people.

 

[Flash]

This:

Once again the facts are being twisted. They quit because the city announced they were no longer paying for any legal protection / representation for members of the ERT or SWAT teams. The police union recommended the members resign to protect themselves from the expense of defending themselves against complaints filed against them.

Does not equal this:

More to it than that... the union said they would not pay because the city was not backing up its officers.

"The city, (Erie County District Attorney John Flynn), they're not representing those guys at all. They have to find their own lawyers; they have to come out of pocket."

The union said that the city’s failure to back it’s officers would leave the union in too big a financial risk if it provided the legal representation due to the current war against law enforcement from both the angry mobs and the city administration.

So yes the union decided to no longer provide the representation but that decision was caused by the city not supporting its police. The union basically told its officers to not put themselves at a higher level of risk voluntarily doing extra duties for a city administration that hates them.

Like I said in my post above, I am pretty sure the governments often don't defend officers charged in a crime unless you count public defenders. Having never been in a union, I can't legally join one, I would presume that one of the things unions do is help defend their members if they think they have been unfairly charged with a crime. By explicitly stating to its members that they union would not defend the officers in that unit they are effectively forcing the officers to make a choice to continue serving without union backing or resign from the unit.