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Promotion in the IRR

S

subreservist

Well-Known Member
Apologize in advance, as I realize this is not an IRR example:

I'm at drill this weekend, speaking to a fellow O4, who is inquiring about what to do for a missing FITREP period, when an O5 chimes in some input and throws this nugget in the air...

He recently made O5 on the last board. He has a 7 yr break in service...at year 19 of commissioned service (with 12 good years), he received a letter, basically thanking him for his service, etc, but you fall under attrition and will have to be put out unless you make O5 on the next board. Fortunately, he was up for board! He didn't have time for JPME, but applied for a reserve command billet as OSU/OIC type which gave him a strong, visible leadership opportunity.

But what makes this even more interesting (as I noted my mind he didn't have a warfare pin) is when I asked him his designator and he told be 1105!! Basically, the dinosaurs of the Navy, as most fleet support transitioned to HR 1200 or something else. If you pay any attention to board results, 1100 have some of the lowest promotion numbers, especially at the O5 level. Thought I'd relay a guy who made it against the odds...

Another item to note...he did not get continuation offered. My guess being that as 1105, you are not in a critical designator, so that would make sense. Looks like PERS has gotten better at keeping tabs...I know folks who could hide on the books for a while in the past...

For anyone working on JPME (I plan on starting soon)...if you get it all done, make sure they annotate an AQD on your record (or send proof to the board)...it's a big promotion milestone! Some may only focus on the points piece of it...
 
vxc961

vxc961

.
Thanks subres! Funny how tough it is to actually find out how things in Bupers work! I appreciate the responses here--I'm pretty sure of the following:
-In the reserves at least, you keep on going before the selection board as above zone.
-I think if you can swing 18 "good years", they'll let you get the rest. Interesting that the "Army Right Sizing" thread just opened up, and it makes a distinction between RIF-ing those with less than 18 and those with more than (that's on the AD side, but I think it still applies to reserves: http://www.airwarriors.com/community/index.php?threads/army-right-sizing.41356/#post-764499)

I also like your example, because it doesn't seem like designator is as important on the reserve side. I know the CO would have a tall, taaaaalllll order if he/she wanted me to stand OOD right away!

Thanks!
 
vxc961

vxc961

.
subreservist said:
http://the-military-guide.com/2013/01/21/sanctuary-and-military-retirement-during-a-reserve-career/

Another useful, more current article...
Click to expand...

Good article, and good website too. I emailed Doug about it, since he seems very knowledgable, and the article specifically said there's no such thing as reserve retirement sanctuary. He returned my email and said "active status" in the title 10 section cited meant reserves on active duty, so the statute didnt apply for reserve retirement; he also thought it meant a reservist getting an AD retirement. He pointed out that the service component pays the retirement costs until age 60, when DOD takes over--which explains why they're so careful about not letting that happen.

I provided him the title 10 definition of active status, so we'll see if he reinterprets after that, or convinces me to reevaluate. I'll post if he replies with anything interesting.

Interestingly, despite interpreting the statute differently, he did seem to agree that the Navy won't kick you out once you reach 18 years. He seemed to think it was sort of an informal or backdoor policy (my paraphrasing of his email) rather than a law or instruction.

He also suggested that when I called PERS-911 and was told "get to 18 and we'll take care of you" they were referring to AD retirement. I was quite clear it was about reserve retirement both times I had the discussion. Most recently we talked about "good years", "grey zone" etc... When i called two or so years ago, the counselor pulled up my record and said "you'll be fine. You'll have 19.5 good years at your 20 year (commisioned--i have 18 months of enlisted time and two bad years), but we only count whole years. no matter, we'll let you get 20." Anyone else who's curious, please give them a call and post what you're told and how you interpret it. I still have my shreds of doubt.

While I'm on the topic, I should point out that I asked if I got 50 points in that first part of my 20th year before I got kicked out, if it would count as a "good year". Nope. It's extra points, but a good year has to be a whole year I was told.

For what it's worth, I know it seems convenient that I'm arguing a point that benefits me directly, so there's the temptation for "motivated reasoning". My research does point in the "18 good year" direction though, and I know of a few guys who had a bad year, got back into the reserves, but then gave up since they thought that was it. Some even became Blue & Gold Officers as civilians instead of doing that from the IRR! I hope we can definitively resolve this and get the word out!
 
S

subreservist

Well-Known Member
On your point of getting 50 points in the first part of your 20th year...it doesn't matter at that point because you have the 20 threshold and reserve retirement is based on points earned...so counting an extra year (even if you could get it) doesn't impact the retirement amount at all...

I would agree that 18 "feels" like a comfortable place...specifically, for you there is such a small gap between your good and actual years, I would be extremely shocked if you didn't make it...my gut feel is that you would slip through the cracks regardless...

But the way Doug describes it was how I looked at it...sanctuary would seem to describe those seeking an active retirement and it would make sense as this is a much higher cost than a reserve retirement and they would logically want to put the manpower and legal effort in minimizing this cost...

However, there are a group (probably a small group) of folks that deal with reserve attrition (for all types of reservists)...and someone is removing folks off the books if they are not drilling, pursuing points/collecting years...and someone has put at least "some" thought into it, as they have developed retention/continuation policies specifically for reservists, but how they choose to "enforce" it is the question...

When I preparing for the O4 board, I was looking at the precedence list via bupers online (which is no longer available as of late with the increase cyber spotlight)...but I was trying to pick out how many folks had significant breaks in service (I would say 4 yrs or more) or a unique situation...I found O3's with date of ranks going back to 1992 and 1996!!! There were only maybe a handful (about 3 or 4), but I was shocked to see someone still on the books that long and still getting looks at an O4 board! It was only when I found that ausn article that states a caveat for female officers being exempt prior to a certain date and sure enough all the folks with that DOR was a female looking name...

Again, with you just being shy by 6 months, I just can't see it not getting through...but in the unlikely event something weird were to happen, you'd get a letter about it first...

I actually applaud your effort in calling, because I'd be too paranoid to do it! The way my mind works, I feel like if I call, that would just bring attention and they might "tag" my record as a reminder to themselves to not let me slip through a crack! I would be as generic as heck without revealing my info...lol!
 
P

Pags

N/A
pilot
Not necessarily germane to this discussion, but thought i'd throw it out to the IRR crowd: what are the state of legal residence requirements for IRR? Can I maintain my FL residency or do I need to declare residency in the state where I will be living?
 
OnTopTime

OnTopTime

ROBO TACCO
None
vxc961 said:
I was a recorder on an O-5 board several years ago, and I remember a guy with a great record who gone IRR right before the board. The members pushed for him, but the admiral said "sorry, Active Status Pool can't promote". Maybe I misunderstood something though?
Click to expand...

Reservists in the Active Status Pool are eligible for promotion. Here's the bible: Administrative Procedures for Navy Reservists (BUPERSINST 1001.39F)

http://www.public.navy.mil/bupers-n...ons/BUPERSInstructions/Documents/1001.39F.pdf

Specifically, see chapter 1 for a description of reserve categories and what members in each category are and are not eligible for. There's also a section dealing with reserve sanctuary starting on page 1-13.
 
OnTopTime

OnTopTime

ROBO TACCO
None
Pags said:
Not necessarily germane to this discussion, but thought i'd throw it out to the IRR crowd: what are the state of legal residence requirements for IRR? Can I maintain my FL residency or do I need to declare residency in the state where I will be living?
Click to expand...

If you're not on active duty, your state of legal residence will generally be determined by factors that have nothing to do with the military. Most importantly, where your principal domicile is.
 
P

Pags

N/A
pilot
OnTopTime said:
If you're not on active duty, your state of legal residence will generally be determined by factors that have nothing to do with the military. Most importantly, where your principal domicile is.
Click to expand...
Thats what I figured, but I couldn't find a specific reference. I was hoping to avoid state taxes for a few more years :)
 
vxc961

vxc961

.
OnTopTime said:
Reservists in the Active Status Pool are eligible for promotion. Here's the bible: Administrative Procedures for Navy Reservists (BUPERSINST 1001.39F)

http://www.public.navy.mil/bupers-n...ons/BUPERSInstructions/Documents/1001.39F.pdf

Specifically, see chapter 1 for a description of reserve categories and what members in each category are and are not eligible for. There's also a section dealing with reserve sanctuary starting on page 1-13.
Click to expand...

I've read 1001.39 a million times, but somehow I never zoned in on that. I think that's the key: It mentions both Title 10 section 12646 (which is the 18 year reserve-retirement Lock-in or whatever) and also Title 10 section 12686, which is the "reservist gets an active duty retirement" one.

Thanks!
 
Sam I am

Sam I am

Average looking, not a farmer.
pilot
Contributor
m5h9 said:
I know its a long shot, but just wanted to know if any IRR folks make the O-5 list? Or if you had a few years in the IRR and came back to SELRES?

http://www.public.navy.mil/bupers-npc/reference/messages/Documents/ALNAVS/ALN2014/ALN14043.txt
Click to expand...

I did not make it. I had some pretty good paper too...(numerous O3 EP's from active duty and Sel-Res. Sel-Res O4 paper to include a #1 of 8, an MBA...but NO JPME) Not trying to brag here, just offering context. There's a chance my 6 month break in service took me out of this years board, but I don't think so...I'm trying to confirm that. I think the Navy has officially crossed over from MBA preferred to JPME preferred. So, not having JPME was a big strike, being in the IRR another strike(?). At any rate, I'm still an O-4 according to the message and I was prety sure this was my board.

Now, to answer your question, it's my understanding that returning SELRES is much easier as an O-4 than as an O-5. As a CDR you need to go through the Apply process, may need an over grade waiver...etc, etc. In CNATRA as an Instructor Pilot, you had no hope of breaking in if you were an O5, unless you selected for a CO spot. That was the only two times I saw "outside" O5 show up to the CNATRA units at Whiting. Where as an O-4 can simply be picked up...however, there's a trade off too: if you're an O-4 and short to your 20 year mark, no one might want you since you have such a short shelf life. Real experts feel free to chime in.
 
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