Prior Flighttime

[Pap]

My .02.

Having a private pilots license wont do you much good. Sure it MIGHT help you out in the first 4-6 FAM flights, but after that you are on the same level as everyone else. However, if you have your instrument ticket, you will be way ahead of the power curve. Most primary studs don’t get a hang on how to fly a partial panel approach to an unfamiliar airfield till the middle to end of RI’s. If you have your instrument ticket, you will know how to do all that before you ever have your first BI sim. Advantage? You bet your ass.

If you already have your Private pilots license and you have the time/money. I would recommend you get an instrument rating. If you have 0 flight time, then I would suggest going up in a Cessna with an IP for a few hours and just see if you like being in the air. Back before IFS, some SNA’s would have their first flight EVER in a T-34 and realize that flying is not something they wanted to do for a living. Any money spent on trying to get hours, other than those required to get your instrument rating is IMHO wasted.

Remember, all this relates to Primary only. After Primary, it doesn’t matter how many civilian hours you had. You will be in a level playing field with the rest of your fellow SNA’s.

 

[S.O.B.]

Generally speaking:

Private Pilots License = Better Grades in Primary
Instrument Rating = Even Better Grades in Primary
Better Grades in Primary = Better chance of selecting your desired pipeline

That’s it.

 

[midhusker]

Remember, all this relates to Primary only. After Primary, it doesn’t matter how many civilian hours you had. You will be in a level playing field with the rest of your fellow SNA’s.

I could not agree more. An instrument rating will give you much better grades in primary. No ifs, ands or buts about it. Learning how to fly instruments is like learning to fly all over again. So if you have the rating, tell your ops o, validate some of RI's, get a high NSS and select what you want. When you get to advanced your instrument rating does not mean a thing. Whether you have 3000 hours or just IFS and Primary hours, everyone will do the whole syllabus. no validation or acceleration.

 

[bunk22]

Generally speaking:

Private Pilots License = Better Grades in Primary
Instrument Rating = Even Better Grades in Primary
Better Grades in Primary = Better chance of selecting your desired pipeline

That’s it.

Agreed, as long as you've got what it takes, the above will most likely be the case.

 

[webmaster]

Monkey needs a banana.....

Back before IFS, some SNA’s would have their first flight EVER in a T-34

SHOCK, that was me, and many others. As A4s has said in his typical soft spoken and humble manner, the program is designed for those of us that didn't have the time/money/inclination to get flight time or any ratings prior to flight school.

Heck, I was an old fart (not a grandpa like EOD dave going through), but I still managed to get it in gear and do well in flight school, to get P3s when they were going through one of those phases of being impossible to get.

Since we are all throwing out advice (and if I could go back and give myself advice when I was about to start flight school):

- Know your ****. I mean, COLD.

You don't want to be dicking around trying RECALL the procedures, comms or where the **** am I? Too many other things are going on, plus the IP is trying to teach you something, helps if you know the material and can be a good student.

- Know when to STOP studying, and go out and party and decompress.

Saw too many of my friends burn out, or stress trying to "know your ****" until they couldn't think straight.

NOTE: Pap, not picking on your post, just my opinion.

Final comment: Earlier ppl talked about monkey skills, I don't know, not an instructor in VTs, but I tell you, I have had the crap scared out of me quite a few times by supposed Fleet pilots (heck, I probably scared the crap out of some ppl too), but I do know, that there are some ppl that just "don't have it", and in a multi-crew aircraft, I would watch them like a hawk and always put myself in a defensive posture to recover if/when necessary. So I don't really jive with the whole, any monkey can fly, maybe they can, but hopefully their imperfections will catch up with (pink sheets, attrite, FNAEB, whatever)them before they break something, kill themselves or someone else. I would hate to think that just because joe schmo SNA can hold altitude +/- 50' and on heading most of the time, that they can continue to make it through training. (yes, oversimplification...)

Time for the monkey to have a banana...

John

 

[MIDNJAC]

okay....here's another question.....

I heard from a few fleet JO's (on summer cruise) that I shouldn't tell my instructors in primary that I have prior flight experience (Commercial, IR, around 350-400 hours....probably more by then).......would you agree w/ this, or would it be better to let them know right off the bat? It doesn't seem like being dishonest would be the best route to begin my career, but do any of you see any truth to this? Their reasoning was that the IPs would be harder on me, although to be honest, that doesn't really worry me.....any other good reasons for this, or is this just bad gouge?

 

[webmaster]

Bad gouge....

Be up front with the IP, tell him all your experience levels. I'll let the VT IPs here on the forum answer the rest, but it was always my impression that they evaluated your ability, regardless of what you put down/told them the first couple flights anyway, to determine how to push ya along.

 

[KBayDog]

Concur about the bum gouge. Be up front - remember, these guys are instructors. They are there to teach you. As far as the grading, you are graded based on where you fall in the Course Training Standards - whether you came in with "0+" hours or have been driving 737s for a decade.

(Except for gatordev - I hear that he goes so far as to use a pink kneeboard card to evaluate his studs! )

With your experience, especially early on, they can go beyond the "trees get bigger/trees get smaller" theory of flight that they had to use on rocks like me. Also, since they know your experience, they can point out differences between civilian and Navy instruction, and can possibly tailor their instruction to help you fine-tune your skills a little more.

 

[webmaster]

(Except for gatordev - I hear that he goes so far as to use a pink kneeboard card to evaluate his studs! )

I heard he was santa claus with the grades, and the studs were lining up at scheds to get him for their events....

 

[jg5343]

Everyone save your time/money ---> Read what A4s wrote and close this thread.

At an AF training base we are with our classmates ALL day everyday and are in each other's chili constantly. The guys with more hours that can fly and have the '4' things are doing well, the guys that don't have the '4' things but have up to 1000 hours in my class are not doing as well. 1 maybe 2 flights in fams, but after that, you are on an even ground.

 

[jg5343]

Generally speaking:

Private Pilots License = Better Grades in Primary
Instrument Rating = Even Better Grades in Primary
Better Grades in Primary = Better chance of selecting your desired pipeline

That’s it.

100% HOG WASH

Refer to A4s wisdom above.
That's it.

 

[zippy]

okay....here's another question.....

I heard from a few fleet JO's (on summer cruise) that I shouldn't tell my instructors in primary that I have prior flight experience (Commercial, IR, around 350-400 hours....probably more by then).......would you agree w/ this, or would it be better to let them know right off the bat? It doesn't seem like being dishonest would be the best route to begin my career, but do any of you see any truth to this? Their reasoning was that the IPs would be harder on me, although to be honest, that doesn't really worry me.....any other good reasons for this, or is this just bad gouge?

If asked if you have any prior flight time, and many will ask, definately tell them- but dont go around making with your prior flight time being among the first things that come out of your mouth when dealing with IPs. You don't want to come off as a know it all, or bragging. Several of my friends had IPs also write it in their grade sheets so after a short while, it became common knowledge.

Also, your classmates and others may turn to you with questions because they figure you'll know the answer since you've flown. Help them, but if you don't know or aren't sure of the answer, don't buddy **** them by giving them bad gouge in an effort to show them that your a great source of info.

 

[Gatordev]

Bad gouge....

Be up front with the IP, tell him all your experience levels. I'll let the VT IPs here on the forum answer the rest, but it was always my impression that they evaluated your ability, regardless of what you put down/told them the first couple flights anyway, to determine how to push ya along.

Concur. If you can hold altitude w/in 100 feet and heading w/in 10 degrees, it's a 4, no matter how many hours you have. I'd much rather know you have flight time, because I may be able to relate things to you based off what you (should) already know.

And can you believe they don't even have the three pinks and you're done policy anymore? It's like Christmas to these guys!

 

[goplay234]

The lack of a three pinks and your gone thing is pretty crazy. However, having gone through when the transition in grading was occurring, I can tell you that IP's were definitely less likely to pink a guy during the 3 pinks and your gone phase as opposed to the new MINTS crap. You might have scored a couple of belows but no pink came your way. With the new system, you can really send yourself up the river if you fail a couple of flights. Instructors do that now IMO than they did in the old system. Just my 2 cents. But prior flight time does help, if you know how to apply it.

 

[Pap]

100% HOG WASH

Hog wash? I disagree.

Prior flight time will not keep a SNA from attriting, if that SNA has a bad attitude or study habits. Prior flight time will allow a person who might have ended primary with a 45 NSS, to end up with a 55-60 NSS. There are SNA’s that have never touched an airplane, who show up to primary and end up with a 60+ NSS because they are s#!t hot sticks. However, the majority of SNA’s out there are not in that category. Prior flight time will enable an average SNA to get higher grades at the end of primary.

Simply put, if you end up attriting out of Primary because of a lack of enthusiasm/bad attitude/study habits/etc. No amount of flight time would have saved you. That’s why we get all the stories of CFII’s attriting out of API and Primary. Those folks were destined to fail before they ever showed up to Pensacola, its just that no one told them yet.